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Late model NV4500 flywheel to Early 2 piece rear main seal crankshaft?

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Ryan B., Jan 4, 2003.

  1. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Alright i'm looking into the NV4500 swap here. I searched around but didn't find any answers.

    I've found the first obstacle is going to be using the Flywheel from a 1 piece rear main seal crank on an older style 2 piece rear main seal crank.
    Something about the mounting flange surface is different between the crank and flywheel.
    So what to do?

    Is there another flywheel that you can bolt on to an early 2piece rear main seal 350 engine for a late model nv4500 tranny?

    Or is the only option to run a 1 piece rear main seal engine in front of this tranny????

    /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif

    Thanks for any input. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  2. Depdog

    Depdog 1/2 ton status Author

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    There is a fix for this, I am not helping because I cant remember what it was, but I do remember reading about it over a year ago, keep looking its out there.

    Depdog
     
  3. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I only met 2 people who have ever done the NV4500 swap....one was a customer up at Vintage Chevy when I was up there looking around, and the other was Steve Chin (CK5's very own!)

    About the only thing that stuck with me in speaking with both of them was the cost of the conversion was quite a bit higher than they expected. I don't know if that was because of extra adapters, fabrication work, or what....but it's something you probably want to really KNOW about before you start collecting parts.

    The one guy I spoke with said that in retrospect, if he knew everything it would cost and trouble involved for the conversion....he wouldn't have done it.

    An interested data point at the very least.....Ryan, this seems like an awful lot of work just to avoid fires!!! Why not fix the leaking gasket and be done with it!?!?! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  4. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Something about the mounting flange surface is different between the crank and flywheel.

    [/ QUOTE ] I don't know what the solution is for the NV4500, but the flywheels are definitely not interchangeable between the 2-piece and 1-piece rear main engines. The bolt circle on the crank flange of the 1-piece style is larger than on the 2-piece style. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    I'd start with www.advanceadapters.com as they seem to know a lot about this swap. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Perhaps they have a solution...
     
  5. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    use a flywheel that matches your engine.

    the pilot bushing is in the crank so no problem there
    the clutch disc must match the spline count of the input shaft on the tranny but the flywheel plays no part in that
    unless I missed something
     
  6. blazer72

    blazer72 1/2 ton status

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    Its not that hard but there are some tricks to it. I sent you a PM and would love to tell you how. I have been running a NV4500 for 5 years, the 1st I ran for 2 years and then sold to Steve Chin when I instaled the 203/205 setup. The hydro clutch works much better the the linkage and is easy to install in the 1st gen a bit harder in the 2nd.
     
  7. K5BLT4FUN

    K5BLT4FUN 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Ryan,

    I can tell you the swap is not hard to do on the 2nd gen, since I have done it. The 1st gen, I can't speak of but blazer72 can. Advance adapter can help you with this swap, but they do it with a mechanical linkage. I prefer the hydraulic. I would suggest speaking with blazer72 about it. He is the one who helped me. Also, Sparky87 has done a NV4500 swap. He also helped me on mine. blazer72 was one of the first people to do a NV4500 swap into a 1st Gen and was the first to do a NV4500 to 203/205 setup. He does have a great deal of info on this subject.
     
  8. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    You will need a flywheel for your year engine that will accept the NV4500 pressure plate bolt pattern and clutch diameter, a pressure plate for the NV4500, the clutch disc must match the NV4500 input shaft diameter and spline count.
     
  9. blazer72

    blazer72 1/2 ton status

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    the NV4500 uses the same clutch its the flywheel thats trick as the 4500 has a clutch face that is about .450 closer than any other. So with a normal flywheel and clutch bolted up it all goes fine till you fined out that that the 230 LBS trany that you just got in has to come back out since the clutch wont engange because the throwout bearing is bottomed out on the suport tube.
     
  10. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    Well Ryan
    I haven't done it myself, but I have in my hand the fourwheeler magazine february issue, and they installed the NV4500 behind a small block in a 72 burb.
    They say that they ordered an OEM flywheel but the clutch is a special unit, ordered through AA from Centerforce.
    So I guess like someone here said, talk to AA they should be able to help you.
    /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    I guess you went with that deal, instead of getting the 465/205.
    By the way the mag also mated a 205 to it, using an AA adapter.
     
  11. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Does anyone want to give us a "ballpark" on prices for this conversion? It sounds like the conversion is well understood....but I'd like to know if my "previous information" about high costs was correct or not.

    BTW -&gt; High cost is always relative, isn't it??
     
  12. blazer72

    blazer72 1/2 ton status

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    There are 2 ways to do this

    One use AA parts, One use GM and after market parts
    From AA you need the bell housing and clutch arm about 650.00

    From GM Bellhousing 180.00, Hayes Flywheel and scatter shield 300.00, Hydro bearing 80.00.

    Same clutch both ways so that does not really count as you have to get it anyway. Using the GM parts you can get replacement parts anywhere, even fast if needed. As I found out, AA parts can not be gotten fast. I also had problems with the AA bellhousing. The bolt pockets where it bolted to the block were not cut out to were bolts could be used, had to use alanhead bolts, also the bellhousing warped easily. The GM parts were better made and the bellhousing had the 7th bolt hole maybe it did not need to be used but I did.

    I have gone tough some clutches at this point tried the high dollar race ones, tried cheap ones all made it for about a year of use before something made me pull the tranny. At this point I am using a stock replacement one from Inland truck, its going on its 3rd year of use. I'm hopping that I don’t have to pull it out anytime soon as the trany/203 rangbox/205 are about 500 LBS.
     
  13. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    so a spacer between a standard 465 bell and the nv4500 could be about .45 thick and work perfectly?
     
  14. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Do you hear that Ryan????

    It sounds like "pulling the tranny" is still part of the ongoing maintenance....even WITH the NV4500!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    Sorry Blazer72, not trying to make light of your clutch problems....but Ryan and I have been discussing the "slushbox vs. stick" thing offline lately....and he seems to think a stick is "maintenance free" once it's installed.... /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  15. Sparky87k5

    Sparky87k5 1/2 ton status

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    I swapped in an NV4500 about 3-4 years ago using the AA adapter and hydro clutch linkage. I at first ran a GM crate 350/300hp 1 piece rear main oil seal engine with the original 305 1 piece oil seal 168 tooth flywheel. I later ran a 383 2 piece oil seal engine and 168 tooth flywheel for same. Am now running a 427 with the 168 tooth flywheel for this engine. The AA bellhousing and 12" stock NAPA clutch disc has been used in all 3 installations. I did use a different pressure plate with the 427. NV4500 doesn't care what flywheel you use. Only the engine cares dependant upon 1 or 2 piece style rear main seal.

    Original costs of NV4500 installation using AA bellhousing, clutch arm and new J**P slave cylinder (mine was wore out), new trans from Sallee Chevrolet ($1900), trans floor boot and plate totaled about $2600. Did the complete swap in my garage and it wasn't really too hard. It was completed at the same time I swapped in the 350/300.
     
  16. blazer72

    blazer72 1/2 ton status

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    The problems have had more to do with the AA plate that mates the 4500 to 203, and problems with the 205 being 30 years old than the clutch, but since i had most or all of the trany/203/205 out I would check the clutch and replace it. But and here is the big thing I curently run 37 MTRs a D60 and a 14 bolt both with 4.10 gears, It is so nice to not worry about over heating the atf and just letting it walk over or though were other have to get a run. The 4500 was apart last year just to see if it was looking ok and it had now wear anyplace, the bearing in the 205 were gone and the the 203 needed help but the 4500 was like new.
     
  17. blazer72

    blazer72 1/2 ton status

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    Saw a bellhousing yesterday that had been made from a old 465 one it was a bit more than just the spacer, the mounting ears are outside of the old house and the center hole has to be opened up If you use the AA bellhousing you can use any flywheel if you use the GM bellhousing you have to find a flywheel that thiner by almost a 1/2 inch.
     
  18. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    you certain it was a 465 bell?
    IIRC the 465 shares the same index as the 4500
    the spacer idea I was kinda refering to an easy way to change the bolt pattern
    the hard part would be maintaining the tranny location due to losing the bell index, unless it could be incorerated without losing throwout bearing clearance
     
  19. Ryan B.

    Ryan B. 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Iceman-
    just looking at what i'm getting myself into here... how much of a pain it would be. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
    I'd much rather have a NV4500 than a SM465 in my K5. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. u2slow

    u2slow 1/2 ton status

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    I just HAD to go out and take some pics /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    This is a '94 NV4500 and SM465:
    [​IMG]

    This is the'94 NV4500 with a SM465 bellhousing (it fits the retainer). Notice the "ears" that have nothing to mount to.
    [​IMG]

    My plan for using this NV4500 is to swap in a Dodge input, which has the same spline, but 1" longer, and to make a 1" thick spacer/adapter for the SM465 bellhousing.

    With the 1/2" thinner (or thicker?) flywheel issue... It sounds like somethings being missed.
    The flywheel and pressure plate is the same for the iron-topped vs aluminum-topped SM465 - the clutch disc differs. The NV4500 bellhousing is the same as the alum-topped SM465, but with a wider pattern.

    That said, an old flywheel and pressure plate should work with a NV4500 clutch disc.
     

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