Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

LEO's current or former looking for your thoughts

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by bigcountryk5, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Posts:
    931
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    G-vegas(Greenville) South Carolina
    The Rev. Jesse Jackson has taken on another cause but this time i think he has a point. Some of the things he get's behind are ludicrous in my opinion, but this particular incident made me think he could have cause to raise his normal overt uproar.

    A few weeks back in a neighbooring county there were some UC's involved in a drug bust being backed by uniform patrol officer's of course. With what i have been able to find out from some men in law enforcement that would know (not from the media because i put little faith in the validity of many stories in the media today.), the subject was not suspected to be armed and when the take down occured he panicked and tried to run putting some of the officers in the path of the vehicle. now at this point i say take him out protect the officer, and they did so. the thing the reverand has a problem with or at least is claiming as his motivation for involement is the fact that the suspect recieved multiple GSW's 4 to the face 2 to the upper chest and 1 to the back of the head. I agree that the use of deadly force was neccisary, and think that SLED wil find that it was proper to use deadly force in ythis situation. But did they go to far? was the Amount of force use neccisary?
     
  2. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2002
    Posts:
    17,372
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Gettysburg, SD
    Shot in the back of the head is telling
     
  3. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Posts:
    931
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    G-vegas(Greenville) South Carolina
    yeah that one in the back of the head is the one that gets at least one of those officers relieved of duty is what i'm betting
     
  4. 70jimmy

    70jimmy 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2000
    Posts:
    5,961
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Released from Pueblo, told I belong in Southpark
    You have several officers in several different positions that all obviously felt that officers lives were in danger and fired. Shots probably occurred very quickly. If an officer was somewhat behind the suspect and saw that other officers were in danger and fired its likely that the suspect would be hit in the back or in this case the back of the head. Also the suspect may have lunged or crouched when shots rang out and his position changed putting the shots to his backside.


    Recently I heard of a case where something like 9 officers fired on a suspect and he was hit 19 times.

    When you are in a high stress incident the officers tend to get tunnel vision and sometimes don't even realize anyone else fired. If the situation was such that any officer would be justified in the use of deadly force then all officers would be justified.

    We are talking about deadly force so the aim is to stop the threat, (Kill the suspect) You don't shoot to wound. Officers often double tap and when training even do 2 shots to the chest and one to the head. High stress also leads to poor aim.

    If you are a shooter next time you go shooting shoot like 10 rounds with no stress just relaxed then do 20 pushups, 20 situps, 20 jumping jacks, a couple 40 yard dashes and immediately fire the same 10 shots and see what happens to your accuracy. Even though the officers may not have physically exerted the mental stress raises the heartrate dramatically.

    Ok I am off my soapbox. Flame away people:weld:
     
  5. flatline

    flatline 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2004
    Posts:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio (area)
    Honestly, you would have to put yourself in those officers place as they obviously seen that a friendly was in danger. Would you stand and watch a criminal run over one of your co-workers knowing you had the power to possibly stop them? I think not, or I would hope not. I do believe the gun fire probably happened very quickly as many officers seen what was happening, so yes there were mulitple gunshots fired at the same time, but it was not an example of excessive force unless all the shots came from one person. It's hard to say really without being in that position, but I couldn't stand there and watch someone run over a fellow officer.

    People will always disagree with the government, and you have the ability to voice your opinions. but without being in their postion you don't have the ability to say when it is too much or out of control.
     
  6. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Posts:
    931
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    G-vegas(Greenville) South Carolina
    being that i am on the road to become a law enforcement officer in some form or fashion, and i have many close friends and family members currently serving in that copacity i realize the likely-hood of the sequence of events.... everything transpired quickly and many officers firing simultaneously. i also know that many officers train themselves to double tap as they should and i one day will also. the thing is they did not suspect the subject to be armed, a point mr. jackson will no doubt bring up quite a bit, and definately 1 probably 2 of theses officers should not have fired as they were firing at point blank range and stood a good chance of hitting a fellow officer the use of force was justified not IMO but according to South Carolina state law. i just think that the way it went down shouldn't neccesarily, but most likely will result in bad news for the spartanburg PD as Mr. jesse jackson leads his "righteous" fight for justice.


    the one thing that will be some how pushed aside sadly, is that he wound up dead because he was trying to buy DRUGS ILLEGALLY!
     
  7. 70jimmy

    70jimmy 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2000
    Posts:
    5,961
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Released from Pueblo, told I belong in Southpark
    Unarmed???????

    So if someone is headed in your direction with a motor vehicle or toward other citizens they are not in danger of being killed? I'm not a really small guy but I would still lose if you hit me with a VW.

    He was armed and the weapon was a motor vehicle which kills more people annually than any firearm!!!!!

    I have been involved in the reconstruction of one incident similar to this one where 3 officers fired on a driver of a vehicle when one of the officers disappeared from view as the vehicle was driven toward him. Pretty intense just to reconstruct.
     
  8. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2004
    Posts:
    8,224
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    This would be a good thread for Bubba, Jeremy or CamsK5 to answer.

    My personal opinion they did what had to be done to protect themselves and the public. That is a tough job IMO, dealing with the arse end of humanity day in and out - no thanks.
     
  9. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Posts:
    931
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    G-vegas(Greenville) South Carolina
    the only reason the use of deadly force was appropriate was because the vehicle Became a deadly weapon i should have said he was not thought to be previously armed i was not disputing the fact that in one way (a gun) or another (a car) he was putting an officer at risk.

    i just think it was an incedent that should have been avoided through better planning. it is well known that drugies don't particularly enjoy getting arrested the officer should never have been there thetake down plan should've been different and since that didn't happen the officers who reponded to what did happen should have taken a different coarse of action ( at least for the guy who popped one in the back of the subjects head i don't want to have to worrie about another cop shooting me along with the bad guys when i'm out in the field.) by the way his other shot missed and exited the vehicles windshield striking a car containing two other officers and missing the officer in danger of being struck by the vehicle by a little more than a foot. this is all from what i have been told by an officer who was on scene.
     
  10. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2001
    Posts:
    20,716
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    1. If you want to be a LEO, brush up on your writing skills. They suck.

    2. The suspect was armed, he had a car.

    3. If the officers actually aimed those hits, good job; we need better marksmen in this business.

    4. Cannot formulate an overall opinion on the incident. Hell, I've even been on the take down team for an operation such as this with shots fired, but I never saw the actual actions that led to the shots fired, so I have no opinion.

    And last but not least,

    The good reverend can kiss my ass.............................
     
  11. camiswelding

    camiswelding 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Posts:
    2,545
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Redding, CA
    There is insufficient information to make a good response to your scenario...


    If you want a good real life contemporary story look at the LAPD officer that just shot a 13 y/0 at 4 am in the morning driving a gta... who backed into the radiocar and got unloaded on with ten rounds


    result

    Effective immediatley LAPD now has a new no shoot policy involving vehicles... you have to just about be run over and tried to get out of the way before you are justified to shoot (what a punk the new chief is)

    The community is about to riot.... again... and again.. and again... they use it as urban renewal there

    Pictures are being shown over and over ( Fox news. Oreilly etc)of the "lil angel" in his graduation outfit (graduation??? wtf at 13..from what)

    The LAPD copper is being investigated by every agency imaginable.... and I think hes done... he'll be lucky not to "hold the soap" in prison

    Where a person ends up being shot , from my experience , doesnt mean much...
    it hurts to get shot... and people do weird things when they are hit.....

    bottom line....
    every action you do as a policeman is directly related to your house payment, your freedom, and your life..... better be conscious about them and you had better be right...

    Force
    "Force may be used to effect an arrest... Only that amount of force which is reasonable, necessary, and fully justified by the circumstances"....

    .....and that folks is open to alot of interpretation and review

    I both love and hate being retired now....but the more of this crap I see the more Im loving it

    cam
     
  12. 70jimmy

    70jimmy 3/4 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2000
    Posts:
    5,961
    Likes Received:
    251
    Location:
    Released from Pueblo, told I belong in Southpark
    An officer has to make a split second decision and the result of that decision may end his own life, other officers lives, other citizens lives, or the suspect's life.

    This decision will be picked apart by several groups of people over a term of months or years and each group may come to a different opinion of the proper decision.

    Bottom line you can choose to act and hopefully act appropriately or choose not to act and have the outcome decided by the suspect.

    Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!!
     

Share This Page