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Lets talk high HP manuals in cars.

Discussion in 'Other Rides' started by rjfguitar, Dec 12, 2004.

  1. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    84gmcjimmy got me thinking about manual transmissions in muscle cars and I am curious of what there is out there that is streetable and will live behind a monster blown or bottle fed BBC in say a camaro or vette. I have heard of Jericos and know they are for racing but I don't really understand what they are. There is talk about the M21 and M22 in the other thread and I know a little bit about them but would like to know what kind of power they can hold up to. So what is out there for high HP engines in a street car?:cool:
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I've always been under the impression that an M21 can take about 450HP. I have a buddy that killed one with a VERY healthy 383(no actual dyno numbers so I won't claim any).
     
  3. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    For a 4 speed, an 883 Mopar built to Hemi specs is the strongest OE tranny I know of, the problem is bolting them up to a GM bellhousing.The next strongest after that is probably a M22 built to LS-6 specs. Either of these trannies should hold 5-600 horses without a problem. Then you have to start upgrading the driveshaft and rearend.
     
  4. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I'd say you might be having problems with twisting driveshafts or busting rears before 500HP. Drop of the clutch at 400 should do some work to that driveline.
     
  5. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    So what is out there from the aftermarket companies? I am talking 700-1,000HP. :)
     
  6. rubbinz raczn

    rubbinz raczn 1/2 ton status

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    richmond gear does their version of the super t10. or the 4+1 formerly the doug nash 5-speed. lenco is an option but big bucks!
     
  7. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I think the Richmond trannies are only good fora about 400-500HP.
     
  8. Jonny-K5

    Jonny-K5 1/2 ton status

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    if your making 700-1000 hp there is no stock style manual that can handle it. you've either got to go with a full race style manual like lenco or jerico or a full race th400 or powerglide. i dont know much about those race manuals, exept that they are the ones w/ several levers and you pull a different lever for each gear.

    as far as strength of the m21 and m22, the m22 is alot stronger. i'd say the m21 is good for 400hp, maybe. it is a wide ratio tranny best suited for everyday cars.

    the m22 is a short ratio trans designed specifically for high powered street cars. it was made to be the best possible manual for drag racing. i'd say its good to about 450-500 hp. its higher strength is mainly due to the straighter cut gear teeth. they produce a fairly high whine, but they decided it was worth it for the added strength.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2004
  9. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I relize that. What I am asking is what is out there from aftermarket companies that do have streetable trannies built to take that much power. i don't think one of those full on race trannies with the 4-6 levers are very streetable. I would bet money that there are companies building custom manuals with a normal shifter, are streetable, and that are designed for big power.
     
  10. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    Big HP trannies

    The highest advertised HP tranny I could find is from Keisler, and it is rated up to 650HP. Maybe they could do a custom version of one of their 5 or 6 speeds. BTW GM made both wide and close ratio versions of the M22.
     
  11. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    [HIJACK]

    Scuse me for my ignorance, but what does it mean when you say "wide and close ratio versions"
    Sorry.

    [HIHACKOFF]
     
  12. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Heres what I pulled of the Keisler site...

    I think this is the one you were talknig about... it's the 5 speed tranny for a hotrod/kit car. Or was there a different one?
    http://www.keislerauto.com/gm/transmissions/street_rod_5spd.asp
    Why do you need overdrive in a manual transmission? Or is it better like that? Sorry for the Hijack, Bobby



    EDIT:

    Prices:

     
  13. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    3 on tree,
    are the camaro, firebird, corvette, bel air, etc. transmissions factory replacement ones? Or why do they say that?
    Thanks
     
  14. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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  15. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Wow, OK. :)
    Close ratio vs. Wide ratio means how far apart the gear ratios are from each other. That means that with a close ratio tranny it won't drop the RPM's as much when you shift because the gears are numerically close together. The idea is taht when you are racing you want the engine to stay in it's power band, the less dramatic drop in RPM's from one gear to the next keeps the engine from dropping to low out of it's powerband. A lot of times close ratio manuals will have an extra gear to make up for the smaller difference between gears. Either that or 1st is really tall.

    A wide ratio tranny has a big difference from one gear to the next. Remember how much the RPM's drop when you shift into 2nd gear with your 465? (considering L-1-2-3) That would be a wide ratio.

    You want OD in a manual just like in an auto...for better mileage and less RPM's. There is no difference between having OD in a manual or auto.

    It says they carry the T10 bellhousing. I would guess that since the T10 was behind a GM motor that their tranny would bolt behind a GM engine too

    I would imagine the air shifter is not automatic. Probably activated by a button or something and the tranny shifts, like an ARB locker sort of probably.
     
  16. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Sorry for all the questions!
    Okay, so close ratio is better because the RPM drop is minimal compared to a wide ratio. Thanks for answering all my questions!!
     
  17. 3 on the tree

    3 on the tree 1/2 ton status

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    My understanding is that they offer some strengthened versions of the factory transmissions that are a straight boltin. Others require a complete install kit or major fabrication. Wide ratios are like the gears on a 10 speed racing bicycle, close ratios are like the gears on a mountain bike, hope this makes it a little clearer.
     
  18. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Okay cool. Thanks for explaining it to me, the way I understand; simple :)
     
  19. Jonny-K5

    Jonny-K5 1/2 ton status

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    the mutli lever shifters can be streetable, but nothing like a standard style manual. i've heard of many pro street cars that drive on the street with racing trannies, and that they can shift butter smooth or downright violent depending on how good the driver is at operating it.
     
  20. Jonny-K5

    Jonny-K5 1/2 ton status

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    i was just reading in TDR that the 6 speed manuals in the new dodge diesel pickups are rated at 1400 ft. lbs. i wonder what kind of HP they can handle. i believe its the NV 4600.
     

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