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Lets talk Torque Converters, no not slippage

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by sled_dog, Dec 18, 2004.

  1. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I mean custom lower stall converters, stock, or higher stall converters. What do you run? What do you find to work? What would you run if you could afford it? I am going with an auto for a few reasons, the main reason is way closer ratios than the 465 I had planned. My rig is going to mainly be a crawler but sometimes I will play in a field or mud and want to let loose the 383. My thought for mud or open straights is higher stall, something like a 2000, 2200 stall. But for crawling wouldn't a custom lower stall converter be better? Plan is a doubler. Just need to get my 203 and adapters.

    Those with the lower stall converters, where did you get them made? What did it cost you? How did it effect your crawling?
     
  2. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    1. A clutch
    2. A clutch
    3. A clutch
    :D
     
  3. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I rockcrawl, so I run a low stall. My truck stalls at around 1000-1200rpm. It works pretty well with my 36:1 crawl ratio. If I had a lower crawl ratio I would run a lower stall. My truck crawls pretty well with 36:1 crawl, 1000rpm stall, 35" tires and a decent TPI 350.

    Harley
     
  4. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    yeah yeah yeah, reason 2 for the 700R4 vs 465, in the S10 puting a factory external master cylinder top loader isn't very easy to my knowledge. My friend whos done a few swaps was telling me how it was a real pain to bed a collector setup to make it work. Had to be about a 90 degree. Oh yeah and not messing with a clutch might be nice. Could always decide I was an idiot and puting my 465 in. Not selling it just in case.
     
  5. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    I made this "late" last night so I will bump it back up. Really want to hear from someone who actually has a lower stall converter.
     
  6. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Tell me tell me!!

    What make is this? I put a TCI truck saturday night special in that I was told would stall around 1800. It stalls at 2300!!! It's C**P!! 1200 to 1400 would be really nice.
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Like everything else, it's a trade off.

    For rock gardens and tippy-toe finesse work, low stall is sweet. I ran a diesel converter (was behind my 6.2) for a while before I got my doubler. Something like 800-1000 I'm told. Very smooth pull right from idle. But the engine would be balky if I ever needed to "get awn it!". And that is required even in the rocks sometimes...

    But then I was warned by several that after the doubler I wouldn't be able to hold it with the brake in low-low at idle going down a hill. When I got my first Th350 from an ex-AZ guy, it came with a converter that he though he remembered advertised as 2000 or so. It was put in by "the tranny guy" years ago and he couldn't remember for sure. Not knowing what to expect, I ran it and I absolutely LOVE it, whatever it is. With the doubler, it is smooth as silk in the boulders. But when I need to hammer down on a water-fall or some place I need some momentum to get past something, it will flash up high enough to let my engine get right into the sweet spot and really come alive.

    So, assuming the "2000 or so" is correct, then that would be my suggestion for stock to mild 350 V8. But remember to take your engine and gears into account. Your goal is to put those "stall" numbers near where your engine starts to make decent power, while keeping enough gear for smooth operation at slow speed. Without low gears (doubler, klune, 700/241/5.13, etc.) a 2k+ stall converter is going to overheat you when slow carefull work is required because you'll have to brake and pull the engine up to 1.5k+ just to keep it under control.

    Finally, advertised stall is sensitive to input torque. The more torque from the engine, the higher the effective "stall" of the converter. But that means increased heat too...
     
  8. Hossbaby50

    Hossbaby50 3/4 ton status

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    I am not sure the make of the converter. It was installed when I had my 700R4 rebuilt. I told them what I wanted (1000 stall) and they installed it. They called it a utility converter.

    I absolutely LOVE my low stall. I have pretty damn good control with it and it will pull hard at and just above idle. My truck works really well with the 36:1 gears (700R4/208/4.56's). The converter is great for what I do in the rocks. With the low end torque from the TPI 350 my truck will overcome the brakes just above idle speed (700rpm idle). So if I need to crawl something I nose up to it an give it a little tap on the pedal and it will climb all the small stuff. For the larger stuff I put my foot on the brake and give it a little gas till the RPM is 900-1000 and as the RPM comes up I ease of the brakes and the truck climbs the harder stuff smoothy.

    And as far as people being worried that the low stall will hurt your get on it (need for quick HP assaults) they are wrong as long as you have good motor.

    In low range all you have to do is jump on the pedal and you are kicking some MAJOR power VERY quickly. This got me into trouble when I was crawling a waterfall onetime before I learned how to drive the truck better. I went to bump the ledge and the quick shot on the pedal the was supposed to be a bump turned into some quick MAJOR HP's and my truck went 3ft airbourne and I came down and busted my driveshaft, custom crossmember, and blew apart my transfer case. The git on it is definilty there.

    Like I said, if I had lower gears I would run a lower stall. TheRobZilla runs a doubler with 4.10's and a 500RPM stall. The truck will crawl anything and it will do it at or just above idle. Once the truck is in gear the converter is stalled out. His setup works really well.

    If and when I get more gear (5.13's or a WMS doubler) I will get a 600-800 RPM stall converter for my truck.

    Harley
     
  9. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    For the time being 700/241/5.13s will be the setup. I may never run that setup if I get the money together for the doubler before its complete. I've really been thinking 2000 or 2200 stall for the shear power I'd instantly get. Right now its a stock tired 350 but the 383 crankshaft is sitting on the shelf with some reconditioned rods waiting for the block to be bored/clearanced and the pistons to come in.
     
  10. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    Converter

    Do a google search for Hughes Converters. Once your at the site look for the new GM11-XTM converter. It has a new turbine design for improved torque at the wheels.

    I am running the Hughes converter right now and it works great. I have tried the TCI Truck Saturday Night Special as well. While the TCI wheeled well on a stock drivetrain TH350/NP203 the extra slip was a pain on the highway with low gearing.

    You may want to have a look.
     
  11. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    I ran a Corvette converter on my 700 for a while, which is supposed to stall just under 2000rpm. I didnt' like it. It may have improved acceleration a bit since I had 3.08's back then. It just felt really loose and not right for a heavy truck. Maybe If I'd had a little more cam... When the lockup clutch failed after 6mo. I went back to stock stall which is pretty good for most uses. I wouldn't have even tried a higher stall if it didn't have lockup.
     
  12. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    They can say it stall under 2000 , but the actual stall speed varies by engine . I do not know what the stock stall speed is , or what is installed in mine , but I idle at 550-600 rpm in gear , and have enough SEAMLESS lowend power from idle in 4 low , I could use some lower gears than I swapped to ( cheap I was ) before I even think about getting a converter :xmas:
     
  13. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    im running a 2200 from BTO and like it alot for what I do... I could see where crawling it would slip to much... but we dont have rocks in FL I actually want to go higher like a 2400 or 2500 but it would make everything but wide open more of a pain... but im really happy with my converter form BTO.
    BTW eveyone was calling 2200 high... all the LS1 camaro guys are running 2800-3200 could u amagine how that thing dosent hardly move till half throttle.
    Ohh another side pick the converter for ur aplication if you dont have a Top end motor you dont want a BIG stall
     
  14. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I think it has a lot to do with gearing, tire size, and terrain. And it is a bit counter intuitive if you consider typical automotive wisdom.

    I do not think I would want my stall like it is if I did not have a doubler (or otherwise have very low gears). With a stall under 2k, I would have serious trouble nose down holding back those 42s (lots of leverage against the axles) with the brakes. Even as it is, I have been forced to knock it into neutral more than once. It also allows me to spool er up a bit for hard hammer down assaults; like what broke my trans and has killed more than one set of springs, but that's the way it goes when you think you can make it "if…"

    On the other hand, what if you have higher gears? It's a double whammy. If you run a low stall, you can use that to sort of keep it smooth and finesse your way through boulders and crevasses. But of course there are heat issues. The biggest problem I noticed with my old low rpm converter was that the engine would be balky when I needed to spike it. The converter got tight around 1k, but that's well below where most small blocks really like to be to motivate a heavy rig like mine. But a high stall with the gears and tires I had at the time would have been a real pain in boulder fields, making it lurch and jump instead of smoothly pulling up and over.

    Anyway, in my rambling way, what I'm getting at is that it is not all cut and dried (like anything in our sport ever is). There are lots of things to consider. The way it will react is pretty easy to get a rough idea about, so just imagine how it's going to react with your combined factors to see which way you think will work best. Sometimes low stall will work well, others work well with the balanced approach of a stockish stall, others need a higher stall to "get on it" AND to be able to effectively brake on hills while in gear.
     

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