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Limited slip wheels both spin???

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by stallion85, Apr 24, 2004.

  1. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    Ok I recently installed a D44 with a lim slip. I put the truck up on jacks i the front then locked the hubs. I started to spin one tire and the other spun the same direction. I then stopped and then tried again, yet this time the other wheel just stood still. WTF? Is it supposed to do that or am I just crazy???
     
  2. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I thought that if you have an LS than the tire you are turning will rotate opposite of the other side with it on jack stands. One will turn clockwise will the other turns counter clock wise. I think. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Are you shure it has an LS in it? No front axles came with anything besides and open diff in the front besides the military trucks. Sounds like it's open to me. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  3. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    A limited slip usually will act like an open diff in this scenario anyway.
     
  4. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I thought that if you have an LS than the tire you are turning will rotate opposite of the other side with it on jack stands. One will turn clockwise will the other turns counter clock wise.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That describes what an open diff will do. I'm pretty sure that my gov-lock used to do that as well, since they don't engage until a 100 RPM difference is achieved between the 2 tires.

    But every other limited slip that I'm aware if will not do that. If you rotate one tire forward, the tire on the other side will rotate the same direction. The spring loaded clutches (or cones in some diffs) in the diff should hold the 2 sides gears together very tightly. It takes quite a bit of force to overcome the friction of the clutches. Typically a lot more than one could apply by hand, even with the opposite tire held stationary. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    If the LS diff in question is a clutch or cone type, then it seems like the clutches are worn out and the diff needs to be rebuilt. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The cone style aren't rebuildable as far as I know...
     
  5. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

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    Some LS's use friction plates also, so unless the friction plates get hot and start catching it will act like an open diff. Usually the auburns and eatons that use the rebuildable friction packs will do this.

    I have the Cone type auburn in the rear of my DD, when you spin one wheel the other moves in the opposite direction (if I remember corectly). If you spin them fast enough they both spin in the same direction.
     
  6. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    I thought that if you have an LS than the tire you are turning will rotate opposite of the other side with it on jack stands. One will turn clockwise will the other turns counter clock wise.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That describes what an open diff will do. I'm pretty sure that my gov-lock used to do that as well, since they don't engage until a 100 RPM difference is achieved between the 2 tires.

    But every other limited slip that I'm aware if will not do that. If you rotate one tire forward, the tire on the other side will rotate the same direction. The spring loaded clutches (or cones in some diffs) in the diff should hold the 2 sides gears together very tightly. It takes quite a bit of force to overcome the friction of the clutches. Typically a lot more than one could apply by hand, even with the opposite tire held stationary. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    If the LS diff in question is a clutch or cone type, then it seems like the clutches are worn out and the diff needs to be rebuilt. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The cone style aren't rebuildable as far as I know...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What about the seal conditioner made for ls? Could adding that make things any better?
     
  7. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Some LS's use friction plates also, so unless the friction plates get hot and start catching it will act like an open diff. Usually the auburns and eatons that use the rebuildable friction packs will do this.

    I have the Cone type auburn in the rear of my DD, when you spin one wheel the other moves in the opposite direction (if I remember corectly). If you spin them fast enough they both spin in the same direction.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is weird because one tire just stood still the second time I attempted the test?? The first time both wheels would spin in a forward direction. Maybe the clutches caught the first time and then released the second time I tried it. I am going wheeling today I guess I can test it then. Whats the best way to tell if it is working on the trail /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif?
     
  8. jjlaughner

    jjlaughner 3/4 ton status

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    the LS additive just takes out the pops and cracks, it conditions/makes more slippery the friction plates and gears (good thing, keeps them from wearing out).

    I say drive it! See how you like it. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
    I like the auburn in the rear. Back in the day when the motor was a little younger it had no problem leaving a set of black marks. I'm left a set of 4 black marks out at my buddies house (I forgot it was in 4wheel hi and back out the driveway and punched it, all four tires lit up and started throwing black chunks up next to the truck.... left 4 black marks about 4feet long! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif this was back in the day before I had a digital camera though /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)
     
  9. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    No, adding LS additive is to help it slip more easily so it isn't too aggressive. That will make your problem worse.
     
  10. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    the LS additive just takes out the pops and cracks, it conditions/makes more slippery the friction plates and gears (good thing, keeps them from wearing out).

    I say drive it! See how you like it. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
    I like the auburn in the rear. Back in the day when the motor was a little younger it had no problem leaving a set of black marks. I'm left a set of 4 black marks out at my buddies house (I forgot it was in 4wheel hi and back out the driveway and punched it, all four tires lit up and started throwing black chunks up next to the truck.... left 4 black marks about 4feet long! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif this was back in the day before I had a digital camera though /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That sounds pretty sweet /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif I don't know if i will be punching it on the road just yet. The $1100 price tag I paid for these new tires is still fresh on the mind /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  11. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    No, adding LS additive is to help it slip more easily so it isn't too aggressive. That will make your problem worse.

    [/ QUOTE ] Cool, thanks for the info, I guess I will have to take her out and see how it acts off the road /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif This driveway test crap is starting to sound a little ridiculous /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  12. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Some LS's use friction plates also, so unless the friction plates get hot and start catching it will act like an open diff. Usually the auburns and eatons that use the rebuildable friction packs will do this.


    [/ QUOTE ]
    That's pretty much the opposite of how they operate. Take a close look and you'll see some big, beefy springs pressing the friction plates (or cones) against the side gears. The friction is there all the time, trying to keep the tires from rotating at different speeds from each other. It's only when the torque bias between the two sides exceeds this friction that the differential starts to allow one tire to spin faster than the other. The clutches are always trying to prevent differentiation. The only diff I know of that attempts to stop wheel differentiation after the wheels are spinning at different speeds is the gov-lock.

    You can raise the torque bias point at which the clutches slip by using a stiffer spring. I think it's Eaton that allows you to specify the spring pressure when ordering a limited slip diff. But the ones with extremely high spring pressures are much more likely to cause the tires to chirp and hop going around corners, as it takes a LOT of force to break the friction plates loose.
     
  13. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    [ QUOTE ]
    But the ones with extremely high spring pressures are much more likely to cause the tires to chirp and hop going around corners, as it takes a LOT of force to break the friction plates loose.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    At which time you'll definitely regret ever paying money for an LSD and wish you had a locker. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    when your out on the trail find a mud area or something soft and punch it and see if both rear tires spin
     
  15. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    when your out on the trail find a mud area or something soft and punch it and see if both rear tires spin

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Both rear tires did spin, the front I am not sure about, but it did seem to hook a lot better. I could definetely feel a lot more traction as if all 4 wheels were turning. There is this one hill nearby that I was sure I would be able to conquer. I got very close but just buried myself in the soft sand at the top. Then I stalled out and had to back down with no power assist!!!!! I was pissed, I figured I would be able to climb anything now...wtf? I guess even a locker in the rear and ls up front still has it's limits. If I had an automatic I am sure I would have made it to the top. I bogged down at the top and could not downshift into low with the truck still in momentum /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Does anyone have any tips on how I can beat this hill. It has now become my Nemsis /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  16. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    You can beat the hill by:

    1. Using a lower gear. Obviously if you bogged you were in WAY too high of a gear in the first place. Try 4 low and 2nd (all the way to the left and down, some call it first)

    2. Momentum is your friend. If your tires are digging and there is no traction to be had, you back down and use a little more momentum next time.
     
  17. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    But the ones with extremely high spring pressures are much more likely to cause the tires to chirp and hop going around corners, as it takes a LOT of force to break the friction plates loose.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    At which time you'll definitely regret ever paying money for an LSD and wish you had a locker. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well I didn't pay for the ls, it came already in the axle the PO had installed. I traded my old pc for the 14ff and the D44. I felt good about the trade, In the future an ARB would be nice up front but for now I figured a ls is better than nothing /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  18. stallion85

    stallion85 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    You can beat the hill by:

    1. Using a lower gear. Obviously if you bogged you were in WAY too high of a gear in the first place. Try 4 low and 2nd (all the way to the left and down, some call it first)

    2. Momentum is your friend. If your tires are digging and there is no traction to be had, you back down and use a little more momentum next time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That is a good idea, I have never really used 4lo for other than idle speeds and sharp declines. I am kind of limited to the momentum though since the hill is kind of between another, hard to explain...not much running room anyways. I white kuckle it coming back down w/ no breaks or steering???? I need crossover, I had the wheel all the way right at one point and the wheels were facing forward. I had to keep turning the key to get the wheel to straighten out
     
  19. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    it is a sand hill? what air pressure were you running? in sand you should run about 8-10psi /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. blabhern

    blabhern Newbie

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    Start at the bottom of the hill in 4lo and take it slowly. You do not want the tires spinning. When they start spinning, it means you've lost traction. Good luck with that hill and enjoy.
     

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