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Lockers....

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by TXBIGFISH, Jan 8, 2002.

  1. TXBIGFISH

    TXBIGFISH 1/2 ton status

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    I am fixin to do a gear swap in the Jimmy, and I figure while I am at it I should go ahead and puy in some lockers. I was thinking about a Detroit or ARB in the rear but I am not sure about the front, should I leave it open? GO with an ARB air locker or what? The drive ratio is about 60/40, this is my daily driver. I am running 10 bolt front and 12 bolt rear. I am looking at going to 4.10 gears, right now I have 3.73. Your input is greatly appreciated.

    <*)))><

    81" GMC Jimmy, 4" lift and a shackle flip, and 35's!

    IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD OUT THERE, AND I'M WEARING "MILK BONE" UNDERWEAR!!!!!!!!
     
  2. I would think that since this is your daily driver, and if you can afford it, ARB would be the way to go. As far as a front locker, it depends on how hard you wheel. If you see a lot of rock, it's almost a necessity.

    American by birth, Marine by the grace of God
     
  3. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    Just look around this forum for messages from the past couple days. It has been talked about a LOT. Just look for posts about lockers and welding and such.

    But, since you asked...
    Detroit rear and limited slip up front. For reasons I posted a few other times in other posts.

    Ken H.


    '86 K5 in parts
    1-ton 454 44 TSLs
     
  4. four_by_ken

    four_by_ken 1/2 ton status

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    Just look around this forum for messages from the past couple days. It has been talked about a LOT. Just look for posts about lockers and welding and such.

    But, since you asked...
    Detroit rear and limited slip up front. For reasons I posted a few other times in other posts.

    Ken H.


    '86 K5 in parts
    1-ton 454 44 TSLs
     
  5. TXBIGFISH

    TXBIGFISH 1/2 ton status

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    I will mostly be muddin' and roadin' but hopefully I willb e doing some crawling before the year is up. I just want to this once and do it right! If it costs a little more and is the better way to do it I don't mind, I just don't like doing the same job over when I could have done it right the first time, ya know.

    <*)))><

    81" GMC Jimmy, 4" lift and a shackle flip, and 35's!

    IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD OUT THERE, AND I'M WEARING "MILK BONE" UNDERWEAR!!!!!!!!
     
  6. white_knight

    white_knight 1/2 ton status

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    If this is a daily driver I would definately go with the ARB in the front

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.whiteknight.scriptmania.com/>http://www.whiteknight.scriptma
    nia.com
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  7. TXBIGFISH

    TXBIGFISH 1/2 ton status

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    And in the rear? Go full time, Detroit or do you have another recomendation for it. Should I just go ARB all the way around?
    I have a friend that had ARB's and he had a problem with them engaging and disengaging. I wonder if it was the installer, not the product.


    &lt;*)))&gt;&lt;

    81" GMC Jimmy, 4" lift and a shackle flip, and 35's!

    IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD OUT THERE, AND I'M WEARING "MILK BONE" UNDERWEAR!!!!!!!!
     
  8. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    I really don't see why being a daily driver or not would affect going with an ARB, a Detroit, or open in the front. How often do you ever put a daily driver in 4WD when in "daily driving" mode? And, if not in 4WD and with the hubs unlocked, it makes no difference. You could have a lead ball in there and it wouldn't matter!

    As far as when you are off-roading, a locker can amke a big difference up front. I have been very pleased with mine. I went with a Detroit instead of the ARB purely because of the cost. My Detroit was $505 whereas an ARB was $650. But, since I don't currently have on-board air, the ARB cost was going to be increased by at least another $150. I "activate/deactivate" my Detroit by having the hubs manually locked but running in 2WD except when I specifically need 4WD. This doesn't relieve the tension and strain a front locker puts on the steering u-joints and axleshafts, but it does help some as no torque is being supplied by the engine in combination with the torque on these parts from the terrain.

    As far as an ARB, I have heard some problems relating to the air fittings leaking and stuff like that. Sounds to me like it is simply going to require a bit more finesse in the install and more maintenance as there are moving moving/functioning parts, but with benefit you have to accept some risk. What is the worst thing that could happen? It doesn't engage so you are open or it won't disengage so you are like a full locker! Both are things you can deal with on a short-term basis.

    For the rear, it depends on whether you do a lot of towing or running on full ice. If you do either of these AND are going with an ARB for the front or already have on-board air, I would seriously consider an ARB for the rear. Otherwise, just go with a Detroit. You can live with a front locker that won't engage or that won't disengage. As you can "disengage" the entire front axle. However, you cannot really do that with the rear. So, either of these problems could be much worse.

    I run Detroits front and rear and have been pleased. The most satisfying thing for me is the ability to take a hill climb or an obstacle at a slow steady pace that most would have to take with momentum. I find momentum seems to break more parts than patience. Lockers are also much more helpful if you choose a bad line.

    Sorry for this beeing so long, but one question. Why 4.10s instead of 4.56s? I went from 3.73s to 4.56s with 35s and a 700R4 and have been very pleased. I wonder if you might be disappointed with just going to 4.10s. The costs of the two different sets are comparable. Why not go taller?

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  9. 74k5inVA

    74k5inVA 1/2 ton status

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    ok, not to sound too much like an idiot, but alas i am still a pavement pounder and have much to learn, but what is the purpose of a locker. would it do my any good since i run full time four wheel drive, np203? thanks, every little bit of info helps. also, a little off target but i need axles and gears, who's got em.
     
  10. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Usually, *if* you feel the need to go to lower gears, you should jump at least 2 sizes. One size, as a general rule, will not be enough of a difference to justify the cost, or to really make a difference. In other words, if you only need to change one size, you probably don't *need* to change.

    Russ

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, 205, D60/C14, 4.56 Locked
    Some day: 4" lift, 44" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  11. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    A locker refers to how your differential in your axle works. On a standard "open" differential, power is transferred equally between the two wheels on the axle provided they both are experiencing the same resistance. But, as soon as one tire has less resistance or traction (i.e. water, ice, mud, whatever), all the power flows to that wheel. Ever spun your tires in water and noticed that only one tire spins? Ever had a tire in the air (hopefully offroad) and noticed how that tire seems to spin with acceleration but the other does not? This is how an open diff works. While it may sound ridiculous, the diff was built because two tires do not always turn at the same rate. On corners, the outer tire turns faster than the inner; with an undersized spare, the smaller tire turns faster than the normal tire. This is what a differential allows. If the two sides were always connected and you tried to go anywhere other than in a straight line, you would wear out tire tread quicker or break something.

    Off road this can cause a major problem. If you are crossing a ravine and one tire leaves the ground, you don't want all your power to go with it. If you get stuck in slick spot, you don't want only one tire turning. A 2WD is normally actually only 1WD. Hence, 4WD is actually only 2WD (one per axle).

    A locker "locks" the two sides together so that power is equally split between the two tires. So, if one leaves the ground or loses traction, you still have equal power going to the tire left with good traction. Full lockers usually have some sort of built-in ratcheting mechanism, however, that does allow some minor differences in wheel speed when not under power.

    Another type of locker is called a "spool". This is when the gears in the axle are welded together or otherwise permanently engaged. This form does not allow ratcheting and differeing wheel speeds. So, it is usually only practical on a vehicle that is always on a surface that can "give" some to the tires (i.e. off-pavement).

    Another form of "locker" is a limited-slip or posi-traction. Regular lockers use gears to "lock" the differential. Limited slips use clutch packs and springs. They don't fully "lock" like a regular locker, but they provide more "locking" capability than an open locker. They engage and disengage the smae way a manual tranny would do. But, as with a manual tranny, they can still slip while engaged and do require rebuilding from time to time, as any clutch would require.

    This is lockers 101. Hope it helps some.

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  12. 74k5inVA

    74k5inVA 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks, i might be ready for the next course :-)
    awesome info, i wonder what i have in my rig?
     
  13. delta9blazer

    delta9blazer 1/2 ton status

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    very articulate and informative, brian.

    i think this deserves an A+!

    <font color=purple>delta9blazer</font color=purple>
     
  14. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks! Kind of funny, though. Six months ago, a locker to me was a place at the gym for my stuff! Since then, I have learned enough that I even installed and setup my own gears and lockers! And this site has been the site where I have gained probably 90% of my knowledge. And it has directed to where I could get the other 10%!

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  15. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Isn't "open locker" something of a contradiction? [​IMG] "Open differential" would be more accurate. [​IMG]

    Russ

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, 205, D60/C14, 4.56 Locked
    Some day: 4" lift, 44" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  16. white_knight

    white_knight 1/2 ton status

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    I have not heard many bad things about the ARB . I however have never had one. They are more expensive but being able to have "on" or "off" would seem to be a big advantage.

    I have a detroit in the front. When 4wd is disengaged there is no issue . I have a powerlock in the rear. I find it really locks up nicely when needed.With a rear upgrade I will put another detroit

    Detroits are cheaper and work very well. My rig is not driven daily. If I was to build another rig which I would use daily I would consider the ARB if I had the cash. Best bet is to get feedback from anyone who has an ARB.

    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.whiteknight.scriptmania.com/>http://www.whiteknight.scriptma
    nia.com
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  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I want an OX Locker if they ever actually produce one for a D60 at a reasonable cost...

    Russ

    85 K30 CUCV, 350 TBI, TH400, 205, D60/C14, 4.56 Locked
    Some day: 4" lift, 44" tires, massive cutting, shorter wb and rear overhang.
     
  18. 2Dogs

    2Dogs 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I have the ARB in the front. It is kinda like a winch - you don't need to use it often but when you do - YEEHAAWWW.
    It is also VERY noticable when you turn it off/unlock. I can't imagine negotiating tight twisty trails with it locked full time.

    Dave

    Horn Broken... Watch For Finger.
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Daves-Pics>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Daves-Pics</a>
     
  19. TXBIGFISH

    TXBIGFISH 1/2 ton status

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    I don't really expect ice, after all I am in Texas, mud and dirt and hopefully rocks is more likely. I thank you for your advice, I don't have on board air, I believe I will go Detroits front and rear. I just hear an awfull lot about people running an open front diff. As for 4.10 instead of 4.56, I don't really kknow, to me 4.10 seemed like a good medium for all around driving. I am running a 350 with a th350 to a 208 and don't have overdrive. I haven't made my decision in stone as of yet and am pricing things to know how many body organs I need to sell to do this. I want off road ablility and reliability, yes, I am aware that is a contradiction in terms, but one can try! Do the 4.56 give you that much more of an advantage? I am sure for crawling it would but I don't really know how much crawling I will do. I want to do it but never have and am not real sure where. I live in N. Texas and there is alot of mud but haven't seen much rock, down at the family place in the Hill Country is LOTS of it! I just want a really good vehicle to do anything I want to do with.

    &lt;*)))&gt;&lt;

    81" GMC Jimmy, 4" lift and a shackle flip, and 35's!

    IT'S A DOG EAT DOG WORLD OUT THERE, AND I'M WEARING "MILK BONE" UNDERWEAR!!!!!!!!
     
  20. delta9blazer

    delta9blazer 1/2 ton status

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    i'm pretty sure it was grim that summed it up nicely for me. if you lock the front end, then the abuse is going to go further up the drivetrain.
    for a daily driver/play truck, it makes sense to have a built in safety valve (spinning one front wheel), rather than suddenly discovering a weak link elsewhere. and i can keep up with the crowd in the terrain i wheel in, i just have to pick my line a little more carefully, and understand that i don't have a locked, one-ton set-up. and since i don't want a rubicon blazer, it works for me.
    the ARB sounds like the way to go, if money isn't an option. if money is an issue, than you're probably not building a trail-only rig.....

    <font color=purple>delta9blazer</font color=purple>
     

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