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Longest spring we can use with reversed ORD flip brackets?

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by Boss, Jan 29, 2002.

  1. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Stephen, or those who have done this,

    What is the longest Spring I can use with the ORD shackle flip brackets mounted on the opposite sides? Is it 56"? Thanks
    Boss

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     
  2. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    If I recall correctly....mounting the shackleflip "backwards" move the rear mounting point something like 2 - 2.5" back. I'm not sure what you're current eye-to-eye spring measurement is, but you should be able to easily add that additional length.....

    Of course there's no law that says you couldn't also drill 4 new holes in the frame and put that bracket as far back as you want...!!! [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  3. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    I'm running the stock 52" rear springs right now with the ORD brackets. I remember "hearing" you can use 56" rear springs with the ORD brackets flipped and in the stock mounting holes. But as I was staring at it the other day, it seemed more like I would only be able to mount like ~54" or so, if the brackets are in the stock location but reversed.
    What I'm trying to do is mount custom made 58" rear springs. So, I'm trying to figure out how far back I have have to move the brackets after it is reversed. It's looking like I have to move it back like 4", which probably isn't a good idea. Looks like I only have room to move it back about ~2.5" max or so before I get into the "wierd shaped frame zone" (I didn't measure, just looked). Hence, 56" rear springs may be the max I could go with the ORD brackets reversed and moved back.
    UNLESS it is true that we could use 56" rear springs with the brackets reversed an in the stock location, then, if I move it back 2", then I would be able to use the 58" springs. 63" is out of the question for me, don't want to do the fab work to make that work (atleast for now).
    Anyhow, Stephen, what is the deal? What's the longest spring I can use with the brackets flipped and in the stock location?
    Boss
    ps, btw, it's drilling 6holes on each side, not 4. Don't forget about the bottom 2.
    Boss

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Boss,

    I'm not sure what the later-style shackle flip looks like, but for my '72 there were only 4 bolts to attach...nothing underneath.

    The other thing I'd wonder about is what is the "optimum" angle for that shackle? If I had to guess, I'd say you'd want it perfectly "vertical" when the truck was at rest, so that it could move equally far both forward, and back as the suspension cycles....

    Pure speculation on my part.....but it does seem "logical" to me. [​IMG]



    -Greg72

    '72 K5 Blazer - 427BB/TH350/NP205/6" Lift/35x12.50's
    <font color=blue>See it here: </font color=blue><a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/albun38</a>
     
  5. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Gotcha. The new style (73' to 91') uses 6 bolts.

    Anyhow, the optimum angle is definately not straight verticle. Right now it doesn't even sit verticle, it's angled back a tad, which is good. I don't know what the exact degree is that you want it angled back, but I'm guessing somwhere like ~20 to 35. Super rough guestimate right there. I know with my front shackle, it sits slightly angled towards the front (the wrong way), so I could get away with sayyyy, maybe some custom 50" springs, and that should angle it back some, which is what you want, for smoother ride and better flex. The rear is already like that now though. Thanks for your input though :)
    Boss

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     
  6. Russ

    Russ 1/2 ton status

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    Boss,
    I flipped them backwards and moved them back and installed approx 60" custom springs from Alcan. You should not have any problem at all with 58" springs.
    Russ
     
  7. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Russ, do you remember how far you moved them back??? I was thinking of getting custom Alcan 58", but if you can get 60"s to work, them d'amn!! :) I may just go that route. Let me know how far you moved it them. Thanks :)
    Boss

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     
  8. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    The correct shackle angle depends on a lot of spring characteristics, but basically you can start running into problems laying the shackle down more than about 20 degrees off vertical when the main leaf is flat. What happens is when the spring starts to go into a reverse arch it tries to pick the truck up because it's pulling forward on the shackle. If your spring will never reverse, you can go a little more but I've seen some pretty huge shackle angles out there and they may get a little more drop out of it but it stiffens the spring up a good bit too.
    With the flip reversed and a 54" spring you get about a 60 degree shackle angle, with a 55" leaf you get a little over 70 degrees. I'm working on some custom packs right now that will probably end up with about a 54.5" or so main. I ran 55's and never seemed to get all my bumptravel out of it since they got really stiff on compression. Basically you should keep the ratios about the same as a stock spring with the stock flip location. There are other factors but assuming a pretty flat spring that's my recommendation.
    My rear's set up with about a 15 degree angle when the spring is flat so at ride height it's just about vertical.
    We may be splitting hairs on some of this but the moral of the story is that you should probably not plan on a 58" main leaf without moving the brackets back. I did take a look at my K5 and I think you could move the brackets back about 2" and at that point you're good for a 56-57" leaf, maybe 58.

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    SW-ORD
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.offroaddesign.com>www.offroaddesign.com</a>
     
  9. Russ

    Russ 1/2 ton status

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    Boss,
    I moved the shackles back 3 1/8". I didn't do anything scientific, just moved it back as far as I could until I ran into the drop in the frame, then flipped them backwards for a little more length. My spring main leaf is right about 59 1/2" That is the closest guess I can get with a tape measure since it is installed. That turns out to be 57" eye to eye with the truck sitting flat. I used a 5 1/2" drop shackle for more travel and it sits right at 13-14 degrees back. By the way, I used the ORD 2.5" shackle flip and a 2" lift spring from Alcan. This combined with the drop shackle gave me a little over 6" of lift.
    Russ
     
  10. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Thanks for the post Stephen and Russ! :)

    I'm definately planning to move the hanger back and also reverse them. I just wasn't sure how far back I needed to do it to fit 58" springs. I have to check again, but I thought the max I could move back was like 2.5"s.
    Stephen, do you know when yall will have front custom springs made and ready to rock? How long will they be btw?
    I was planning on going with Alcans maybe, but if yall are doing the same thing I might go with yalls spring instead, atleast for the front.
    Boss

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     
  11. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    I just sent off specs for a couple custom springs not too long ago. Let me know your specs and I'll see what we can do. In general I'm trying to use about 9 leaves for the front and get at least 5" of bumptravel before the spring stress gets too high. More if I can get it with your weights, etc. Rates depend a bit on ride height, taller springs I like to see a bit stiffer, shorter ones can be a little softer. Basically to control body roll. Of course if you want a rolley polley we can do tall soft springs too!

    Making the world better, one truck at a time.
    SW-ORD
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.offroaddesign.com>www.offroaddesign.com</a>
     
  12. wayne

    wayne 3/4 ton status

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    Keep me posted on what you come up with since you know I am planning longer rear springs.

    See <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/Waynes-Toy>Project Mighty Mouse</a> here.
    <font color=blue>Wayne<font color=blue>
    <font color=blue>Happy Trails<font color=blue>
     
  13. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Hey, I emailed you this when this forum wasn't working right, but now since it is, I'll post here. Basically, I don't know what your definition of tall springs are, but I'm looking for a 5" lift spring for the front and 2 " lift for the rear. Since you ask for what specs I want, here they are:

    For the front, this is basically what I'm looking for:
    ~50" in length, longer than normal b/c I want the shackle angle to move back some. I currently run your HD shackles (greasable). I run 1 ton axles. Will be running 39.5"x15x16.5" TSLs. I would like to have the spring hole moved up 1" to move my front axle up 1". (You recommended that to me in the past when we talked about this).
    I run a tubed bumper, kinda similar to yours, with the WARN HS9500i. I obviously would love to have the springs soft to get some good flex out of it, but semi road worthy as well. I currently have a stock 350 TBI, but will eventually put in a 383 vortec with TPI, probably a next year project. I currently run your TuffCountry HD 4" springs.
    I run RS9012s shocks, so I have the "luxury" of adjusting stiffness :)
    Is this something you guys are building? Also, can you recommend me the spring rate too? I want to retain your greasable bushings too. I use it in the the front end of the spring and the back end of the spring. I bought the extra set for the front end from you a while back.

    Now, for the rear, I would like to have 58" long, spring hole moved back 2" to make it 28" in front of the center bolt and 30" behind the center bolt. (58" long, 28"/30").
    I will be moving your 4" ORD shackle flip brackets back about 3" and also will reverse them. I only need 2" of lift for these springs. That should even out the front and the rear. Spring rate, I'm not sure, but I guess to be similar to the stock Chevy late model ones....??? I run a bumper with a tire carrier on it. Will have 39.5" spare too. I definately would like some good flex out of the spring too though.
    Can you guys build me one like that for the rear too? Or did yall have something else in mind for the rear.

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     

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