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making a starter motor run both ways??

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by diesel4me, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Anyone ever figure out how to wire a starter motor up so it will run in both directions,foreward and reverse??--I tried hooking the battery + and - cables on the starter both ways,and it still turns in the same direction!..I'm trying to use a starter motor as a winch motor,like the ones that come on a warn winch factory--they look like a ford starter motor,but with another "third" brush terminal..anyway to "reverse" an ordinary starter motor to work this way??..

    I've been told the permanent magnet starters from later subaru's can be reversible,but I think they need to be isolated from ground...not easy to do..

    I wish I took the starter motor off that golf cart my friend junked recently--that one ran both ways,since the 2 stroke motor simply ran backwards for reverse--and it had all the solenoids it needed too...DUH..:doah: :doah:

    Any geniuses out there ever sucessfully do this??:confused:
     
  2. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    from what i rember from building an eletric motor in science calss, im almost positive it has to be wired the right way to run backwards, but dont quote me, its been a long time:grin:
     
  3. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    know what happens to a starter when you engage it too long? it burns up. i'm thinking the same thing will happen when trying to use it as a winch motor.
     
  4. big_truxx

    big_truxx 1/2 ton status

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    Very good point. I had seen the insides of a 6.2 starter that had been held running cuz someone didn't know anything about vehicles before... Wasn't pretty.
     
  5. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Windings on the motor would need to go the other way to get it to run in reverse.

    All of our trucks are negative ground, so its impossible to reverse the polarity.

    Even if you did reverse the polarity a starter wouldn't run backwards anyway.
     
  6. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    thats what I found out!

    Yup--reversing the positive and ground cables did nothing,the starter still spins in the same direction!...I've talked to a few starter rebuilders,they all say that the winch motors are nothing more than an old style 1960's ford starter with an extra brush and feild coils wired up to allow it to run in either direction..they did say some starters with permanent magnet motors are reversible--but you'd have to isolate the motor from the truck somehow,and probably have its own battery..

    I currently have a winch I use in my shop to pull in dead vehicles,and other chores,its a 110v model,that has a toasted motor--I rigged up a heavy angle iron base to mount it on,and I am powering it with a ford starter hooked to a small riding mower tranny that has 3 speeds and reverse,I coupled the tranny to the spot on the winch where the hand crank usually would go with sprockets and chain---it works ok,but its hard to shift the tranny from foreward to reverse when the cable is under tension...and I dont know how rugged the tranny itself is,though it doesnt seem to be under a huge strain while your pulling with it(my theory is if you could crank the winch by hand,it cant be THAT difficult for the tranny to do it,shouldnt be too much for it to handle...but if I could make a starter run both ways,I could couple it direct,and eliminate the "bind" and the tranny altogether....:thinking:

    I've looked into simply fixing the original motor,but its costly and hard to get--and its a POS too boot,the guy fried this winch in 3 minites right out of the box!--it looks like a starter motor from a motocycle,wired to run on 110v with some kind of rectifier setup....its a dayton winch with a 4000 lb pull stength, 584 to 1 ratio!..
    Maybe I'll just use an old 110v motor from a table saw or something,I have a few of them kicking around that are reversible--I was hoping I could keep it 12 volts though,so I could use it around the yard and in my truck bed to load heavy stuff--(and not have to worry about getting zapped with 110v!:blush: )-its nice to not have to push a dead vehicle into the shop !..:crazy:

    If anyone else has any ideas,please speak up!:ears:
     
  7. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    A permanent-magnet DC electric motor WILL run in the opposite direction if you change the polarity of the input power; i.e. pos power to neg terminal and neg power to pos terminal.
    Is a GM starter motor a permanent-magnet DC motor? I'm asking because I don't know...
     
  8. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Some winch motors are perm. magnet. Others have field coils. Common reversable DC motors usually have two sets of field coils, one set for each direction. Electric motors having timing in the where the brushes are relative to the field coils. They need advance just like an IC.
     
  9. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    The example stuck in my mind is a simple 540-class R/C car motor. A can with 2 permanent magnets inside, an armature with 3 segments and a commutator, and an endcap with 2 brushes to ride the commutator and transfer the current to the armature windings. Input power goes straight into the brushes, and if you reverse the input polarity, the motor spins in reverse.
    Am I over-simplifying this, or is my lack of detailed automotive knowledge in this area standing out like a turd in a punchbowl?
     

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