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Many Many 14 Bolt Axle Questions

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by TruckNutzDude, Aug 2, 2003.

  1. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    (Yes I did a search first) Ok, this might be long /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif So I got my 3/4 ton axles today... Not 5 minutes after dropping them off in my driveway I decide to open the rear diff and see if there really is a Detriot in the back (there was /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and if the 4.88 gears really were 4.88's (they were)... phew /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Now here's my questions:
    1. I took out some greenish bluish gear oil, is that a special type of oil for the detroit? And where can I get some?
    2. My pinion seal is leaking and there's some play in the end (bearing I think) how hard is it to replace the seal and bearing?
    3. I'll probably have to do brakes front and rear, should I convert to disc brakes now? And if I do, who's got the cheapest parts for the swap?
    Just one more, then I'll be done.
    4. Since I'm going from a 10 bolt front to a D44. Should I keep my 10 bolt calipers (new) and just get new stainless lines for the 10 bolt, or get another set of calipers and lines for the D44?

    The axles came out of a '79 K20 (I think) if that makes any difference and they're rusty as h#ll /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif They sat for a year before I bought them, so I already know I need to replace something... or a lot of things!

    I hope you guys can help me, I hate having to ask for help, but sometimes it's just better to ask first. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  2. SUBFAN

    SUBFAN 1/2 ton status

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    1. Not sure on the gear oil Q....

    2. I have never replaced a pinion seal yet....

    3. ?

    4. You can re use the calipers, they work on both. You may need to get new a new banjo bolt that isn't metric. The brake lines are the same too, only diff is that banjo bolt....

    5. Lucky Fawker /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  3. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    A few of those I can help you with
    Go with rear disks get the brackets and hoses from AZ-KICKEN OFF ROAD(a little more but has amazing quality) For the rotors and callipers go to a local parts store. Keep you 10bolt callipers if there new(im pretty sure they work on 3/4 ton) Take the front callipers off the D44 and use them as cores for your new rear calliper (for the disks)
    How did the oil look? If it was watery you might wanna check the bearings
     
  4. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    the brake likes are differnt 10bolts use a 10MM(smaller) D44 uses a 7/16(bigger) The bango bolts are differnt sizes
     
  5. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    just get synthetic gear oil and you will be ok...
     
  6. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    www.azkicken.com will have EVERYTHING you need for the disk brake conversion, calipers and all, and they offer a 10 percent CK5 discount which if you do buy from then it pays for membership right there. My kit was like 350 or something. i dont remember exactally, but his customer server was the best i have delt with so far. My calliper was bad (not his fault they get them from a 3rd party) and with in the same day he shipped me a new one. GREAT SERVICE /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    1) No special oil needed. Just regular old 80/90

    2) Which pinion seal is leaking? Front or rear? And what exactly do you mean by play? Play as in you can wiggle the yoke back & forth and/or in/out? Or play as in you can turn the yoke a small amount before the the axles turn?

    3) If ya shop around, you can do rear discs for around $300. 1 new drum for a 14b is retardedly expensive...$150-200 if I remember correctly. If your drums are ok, and can be turned, just keep them if money is tight. If money isn't really the issue, go to the discs.

    4) What everyone else said. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. Aquaman

    Aquaman 1/2 ton status

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    1. 80w90 is what you want. The only time you'd need a diff gear oil is with a posi. And all you have to do there is put an additive in it (which stinks to high heaven). It is probably a weird color due to the fact that it's old. Actually, Car Quest gear oil is a bluish green coming out of the bottle. I have also used some from a Tractor Store that came in gallon drums, and it was a brownish color.

    2. Which seal? What kind of play?

    3. Do the disks if you got the coin. If not, then don't do it. If you do it, you can get lots of parts off of a K20 front axle.

    4. Um... sure

    Just get some rustoleum primer, and cover the axles with it. Then get some black paint, and paint'em a pretty black color. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
    BTW - How much did you pay for these axles anyway?
     
  9. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    The pinion yoke play is more of a "back and forth" motion than an "in and out" and there is no play in the gears but the drums don't turn immediatley after everything else... so maybe the splines are worn? I also have a detroit locker in it, so do I need an additive??? My drums are chipped, rusted and everything it pretty worn out so I think I'm gonna try doing the disc swap. Hopefully it won't cost $300, cuz that's just not in the budget. Also, the seal that's leaking is the pinion seal, maybe the axle seals, but I haven't pulled the drums yet. I'm sure I'll have more questions, but thanks for the help so far guys! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  10. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    Detroits have a lot of "play" in them. It often takes at least 1/4 turn of the yoke before the axles begin to move.
     
  11. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    If you can grab the yoke and wiggle it back and forth, then you have a problem. The pinion assembly will have to come out, the bearings/races and seal replaced, and a new crush sleeve installed and crushed to achieve the proper bearing preload. The good thing about the 14b is that its waaay easy to set up if ya have the tools and knowledge to do so. If not, just un bolt the pinion support housing, pull it all out and take it to a shop to be set-up. Or take the entire housing to a shop. It sounds like its gonna need some work.

    You don't need any additive. Aditive is for posi diff's with clutch packs in them. What the additive does is help to prevent chatter in the clutches. A Detroit is all mechanical, no clutches.

    The 14b ff doesn't have axles seals like a semi-float/c-clip axle does. It has a grease seal at the back of the hub like a front does. Oil from the differential makes it's way down the axle tube and lubes the wheel bearings. When ya pull the axle shafts, some of that oil will dribble out. Also, to get the drums off a 14b, ya gotta pull the axle shafts, and dissasemble the hub. Again- pretty much the same as a front axle. Then the drum/hub comes off the spindle.


    $300 for the disc swap is actually fairly decent.
    (I bought most of my stuff from AutoZone, thats where these prices come from)
    $30 or so ea for the rotors =$60
    $60 or so for a set of loaded calipers.
    $80-$100 for the brackets.
    $40 for new wheel studs.
    $ - brake lines. I don't know what they cost. I used some SS ones I already had.
    That doesn't count the new seals and bearings, gaskets and all the small stuff. It's still cheaper than new drums for a 14b.


    /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
     
  12. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    When you say "back & forth" do you mean as in rotating or side to side? If you are saying it (yoke) rotates before the drums turn, that is normal for the Detroit. The Detroit needs no special additive for the gear oil.
     
  13. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    Ok, so the pinion is more of a "turning back and forth" not a wiggle /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I chose bad words to describe it. The carier moves, but the drums don't until about 1/8 of a turn. I guess that's ok for a detroit. As for the oil, I think I'll just use synthetic. From what you guys say, the seals should be ok.
    Now, how about replacing the seal on the yoke /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif is that an easy thing? Just unbolt the yoke and replace the seal, then torque the [I love jeeps] out of it?
    And on the disc swap... is there any machining involved?
    Thanks for all these answers guys... I appreciate your time /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. 4GUNZ4X4Z

    4GUNZ4X4Z 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    just get synthetic gear oil and you will be ok...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Doh... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

    That was a joke right?
     
  15. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

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    1/8 turn is is normal slop for the detroit. If you spend much time in the water don't bother w/ the sync dope. Least time going w/o changing it: 4 days. Most: 1 yr.
     
  16. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    Ok, so no synthetic /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif cuz I will be seeing mud/water. And the play is ok for the detroit. I love good news /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm gonna see if I can get the cash to do a disc swap, if not then I'll run the drums for a while. I still think I need to replace the yoke seal though, it looked like it was leaking like a mo-fo and that means water will be getting in... so is that seal hard to fix?
     
  17. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Synthetic gear oil is fine (don't know where that other post was coming from), but regular "quality" gear oil is fine as well. For the pinion bearing, taking the nut off, replacing the seal and torquing the "[I love Jeeps]" out of it is NOT good. You can overload the pinion bearings and create tons of problems. The proper way is to get a new crush sleeve and reset the preload, but that is not fun, PLUS you need a torque wrench designed for this purpose ($$$). Not the best method, but one I have used in the past, is to mark the nut and count the threads, remove the nut, remove the yoke, replace the seal, (speedi sleeve the yoke to prevent chewing up the new seal), retighten the nut using loc-tite, then "stake" the nut with a hammer and chisel to prevent loosening. Again, for the budget minded this is the way to go.

    As far as the disc brakes. They are nice but the total cost to do them is not cheap, plus you may need a proportioning valve AND/or disable your existing one time/$$$. Rusty drums are usually not a problem on a 14FF, as they are fairly thick. I would pull the drums and check them and the pads. Pads aren't too expensive and drums usually can be turned (if you need them turned let me know and I will have a buddy do them). They only thing I would replace if you are going to stay with stock brakes is the wheel cylinders (about $15 each). It will cost a little change as you should replace the axle seals (the thin metal seals between axle an hub) and hub seals (behind the inner bearing in the hub).

    Any luck locating leaf spring plates and u-bolts?
     
  18. kennyw

    kennyw N9PHW Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Any luck locating leaf spring plates and u-bolts?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    If you need any leaf spring plates let me know, I just found a couple sets at a steel scrap yard on a couple truck about to be crushed.
     
  19. TruckNutzDude

    TruckNutzDude 1/2 ton status

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    Leadfoot- thanks for that detailed explanation /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I'm gonna keep the drums for now, since I have to keep this swap cheap /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif I'll just go with the new wheel cylinders and maybe pads if I need them. The discs can wait till I get more money If you and NoAngel aren't too busy next week (or this week/ weekend) maybe you'd like to take a little drive and give me a hand changing seals and such?? I'll supply beer and pizza if you're feeling ambitios and we can get most of it done in a day. Maybe even get the axles under the truck??? /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    KennyW- Yes I still need spring plates. The scap yard wants waaaaay too much cash for them locally. (since they have to remove the axle and torch the u-bolts off) If you can ship me a set of them for a decent price, that would be greatly appreciated! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  20. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Do you have a dry place to work?

    If the weather is sunny I won't have much time, but if it's raining I can give you most of the weekend. I have a side business doing lawns, and so does my buddy. He is leaving Thurs. - Sun., so I will be doing double duty, plus catching up from the current delay due to rain. If it's raining though, I won't be able to do any lawns, so I am more than willing to lend a hand, just PM me your addy and/or directions.

    What do you have for tools, so I know what to bring.

    Do you have a seal puller?
    Seal/bearing installer?
    Drum brake spoon, drum brake spring pliers, etc?

    Stock up on some cheap cans of brake clean (you/we are going to need quite a few), catch cans, and clean rags (hopefully the parts store is close).
     

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