Dismiss Notice

Welcome To CK5!

Registering is free and easy! Hope to see you on the forums soon.

Score a FREE t-shirt and membership sticker when you sign up for a Premium Membership and choose the recurring plan.

mile marker 12K lb hydraulic winch

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by mike reeh, Jul 23, 2003.

  1. mike reeh

    mike reeh 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Posts:
    752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    browsing thru summit I noticed milemarker now has a 12,000 pound hydro winch for under a grand. Anyone have one or have anything to say about them?

    I wonder if it would bolt up to my warn winch bumper?

    mike
     
  2. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    7,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Everybody I know that had hydro winches now run warn electric.
     
  3. RootBreaker

    RootBreaker 3/4 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Posts:
    5,117
    Likes Received:
    173
    Location:
    Williamstown, NJ USA
    [ QUOTE ]
    Everybody I know that had hydro winches now run warn electric.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    interesting i heard from someone that i know... they do tree removal in woods.... and they have TONS of hydraulic winches.....

    I am going with the 12k hydraulic in front and 10.5k electric in rear......
     
  4. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2000
    Posts:
    7,385
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta
    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Everybody I know that had hydro winches now run warn electric.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    interesting i heard from someone that i know... they do tree removal in woods.... and they have TONS of hydraulic winches.....

    I am going with the 12k hydraulic in front and 10.5k electric in rear......

    [/ QUOTE ]
    And I bet they run them off a REAL Hydro pump driven by a PTO. They are also probably using a Industrial winch and for what they are doing it's the way to go.

    I have as yet to see a MM Hydro out pull even a Warn 8274. Then it's also usless if you are on your side or you have drownd the truck because you can't run the engine.

    We wont even get into the pitiful line speed.
     
  5. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Posts:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    I have the 10.5k one. If your worried about the pump problem, you can always get the larger pump, or the electric hydro pump.

    Yes, the warn is faster, but it has a lower capacity. It is faster, but only in line retrieval, when under extreme loads, it slows down dramatically. The MM's all have two speed capability, so speed isnt that much of an issue anymore. in high gear, its able to pull 2k, and 10.5k in low gear. It all depends on setup. There are conditions where MM's wont work very well, but other conditions on which they excel.

    If you do a lot of situations which may put you at an angle that will shut off your truck (carb), then a electric will probably be better.
    If you do a lot of deep water crossings where your likely to have your engine shut off from injesting water, probably not a good idea for a hydrolic. On the other hand, your not supposed to run electric winches under water anyways, so... your choice.

    If you are likely to be doing very long pulls, or frequent pulls (say you and 3 buddies and none of them have winches), Electrics will not hold up as well as hydrolics.

    Again, it all depends. When I was deciding on my winch, I looked at the type of wheeling that I do, and adjusted for that. Sometimes I think, "humm.. maybe I shoulda went electric", but in the end, its really almost a personal decision.

    You can build up an electric (remote mounted solinoid, dual optimas, hell roaring setup, 150A alternators, 0 gauge wiring), or you can build up a hydrolic (AGR pump, maybe an electric hydrolic pump).

    There's a reason the military dont run electric- its just too taxing on the electrical system for one thing, and another (as MM marketing stated, I have no proof of course), is that the warns always burned out.

    Anyways, I personally plan to (at some point) install a 8k electric winch inbetween my rear bumper and hitch.
     
  6. mike reeh

    mike reeh 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Posts:
    752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    pookster thanks for the repsonse..

    Im wondering how expensive it would be to get a pto driven hydraulic pump going........ that would be sweet

    mike
     
  7. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Posts:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    A full PTO can be had relatively cheap, or relatively expensive. Most are driven off the transfer case I believe, and that would certainly not be an easy shade tree swap. I've never heard of anyone using a PTO, unless they are using it for continuous duty. Not certain why though. Regarding PTO"s though, they generally do not use a MM type winch, they have their own PTO' winches that work. (I think the PTO directly hooks up to the unit, where as the MM type has a hydrolic powerred motor).

    I think I've seen someone say they had one on here somewhere...
     
  8. RootBreaker

    RootBreaker 3/4 ton status Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2001
    Posts:
    5,117
    Likes Received:
    173
    Location:
    Williamstown, NJ USA
    [ QUOTE ]
    Then it's also usless if you are on your side or you have drownd the truck because you can't run the engine.

    We wont even get into the pitiful line speed.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    umm that is why a electric 10.5 is going out back.... cuz if you have a electric or hydraulic... i dont care... if you submerge the truck so it is stalled... you have bigger problems than dragging your truck through possibly deeper stuff... so out through where you came in.... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  9. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Posts:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    Agreed! I know that one time, after nearly drowning my truck, I decided to put on some chest waders and start walking through... and in the middle was a hole so deep, Water was 1" away from the top of the wader. I would have had the truck up to the lower windshield for sure! And it would have only gotten deeper. So I guess its not a terrible thing to go out,.. the way you came in...
     
  10. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Posts:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    0
    PTO driven hydraulic pumps is what the poster was refering to.
    no one uses mechanical pto anymore

    I would not use a PTO pump, a belt driven one that will still allow you to use the clutch is the way to go, not a power steering pump but a real pump.
    you can put a big one on and have many times the speed of a POS Warn and still have usuable pulling power.
    the cost of upgrading your electrical system to run an electric winch hard would be much better spent on a hydro system.

    you need a pump, preferably with a vbelt clutch setup
    a 2 way valve
    a reservoir
    and some hydro line

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74937&perpage=25&pagenumber=3

    [ QUOTE ]
    Stephen
    Wheeler

    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: glenwood springs CO
    Member #2092
    Posts: 212

    I ran a clutched belt driven pump on my MM for several years. The pump was about a 20gpm job from either Norther hydraulics or burden surplus. the clutch on the pump looked identical to the clutch on a big AC compressor, like early ford maybe? I used a spool valve with the 10,500# MM single speed winch. I was trying to get the single speed to go faster before they came up with the 2 speed setup. I started with a 7K# motor but with only 1700 psi and no possibility of using the other belt groove, I needed a slower but harder pulling motor.

    Basically, I was able to get 1700 psi out of the single belt and pull at virtually any speed I wanted. The spool valve was great for control, I could run the motor at any RPM with the tires doing whatever I wanted and move the line at inches per minute or 40 or so feet per minute.
    UNDER FULL LOAD. Try that with any electric.
    If I had room for the pump on my current motor/cage setup, I'd have kept the hydro setup but I have a HS9500 now and do miss the line speed under load.

    My system (reservoir, hoses, etc) only held a gallon or so. It worked out well since it's a system that returns, not like a hyd cylinder that holds oil. More would be better but mine worked.

    As for electric/hydraulic, good luck, I don't think you're going to get much for performance. You can get off the shelf elec/hyd. pumps but they don't have a lot of output and are large and heavy. I thought about a hand pump even but that ended up really slow. You'd be better off using your high lift!

    Basically, I would have no problems running a belt driven pump, even with a single drive belt. And I know you can get clutches for serpentine setups now too.
    If I was PTO driven, I'd look for a HUGE pump and control the winch speed with the spool valve and the wheel speed with the transmission and throttle. That would help "de-couple" the drive wheels and winch speed.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    hydraulic is the best winch PERIOD
     
  11. gravdigr

    gravdigr 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2003
    Posts:
    1,129
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tyrone, PA
    Actually many dump trucks use a PTO powered hydraulic pump..they are not at all uncommon. I was actually looking to retrofit our current electric dump truck to a PTO powered pump. The PTO was a direct bolt on to the transfer case. But given the age of the truck (25+ years) we are going with a whole new truck.

    I prsonally cannot see an electric being better than a hydraulic. I work with hydraulics a lot in my job and they are VERY powerful, you won't see an electric backhoe any time soon. I guess the ideal setup would be a quality hydraulic winch run off PTO with an auxiliary electric pump should the vehicle be in a position that the engine cannot be run.
     
  12. bigjbear

    bigjbear 1 ton status Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2000
    Posts:
    13,971
    Likes Received:
    452
    Location:
    Marietta GA
    Hydraulic that was properly engineered would be great. The problem is packaging, this post is a great example. Milemarker's P/S pump set-up has probably done more to hurt the hyd's reputation than anything electric. The pump just isn't enough to get the job done. Dedicated people make them work, but its so muck quicker and easier to get an ele to work properly. Like it or not the market wants easy to bolt on stuff, why else would anyone sell/buy a bolt together rollcage? Of course hyd has more strength potential, ever see an airplane w/ ele driven primary flight controls? Of course not, not enough power, but put MM12K winch against a Warn M8274-50 and the ele will whip its ass. Its not that hyd is bad its just the MM that is flawed.
     
  13. bigblock44k5

    bigblock44k5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Posts:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hurlburt Field, FL
    Actually the military uses Electric winches as well.
     
  14. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Posts:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    on my stock pump, its not nearly as slow as a electric. Loaded or not. (the 8274 is the EXCEPTION and not the rule when it comes to electric winches, IIRC). Not saying the MM system isnt flawed, any dedicated pump system would be better than using a P.S. pump, but then you'd be increasing the cost of the system. Just like beefing up electric.

    unfortunately, if you wheel with a bunch of trucks and non of them have winches, you have to winch all of THEM up as well. Im not confident enough that an electric winch would hold up.
     
  15. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Posts:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    0
    the winch will hold up fine,
    the battery and charging system take the beating
    the electrical stuff is pretty $$$ to beef and will not be in the same league as a hydro setup done well
     
  16. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Posts:
    3,195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NYC, NY, USA
    I thought one of the big problems of electrics was them overheating. An overstated problem?
     
  17. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2001
    Posts:
    4,606
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have drained my big deepcycle many times without damage to the winch
    YMMV
    dedicated battery w big cables, no high $$ alternator tho
     
  18. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Posts:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Actually the military used to use electric winches.... The only winch the military is putting on their vehichles right now are MM 10.5 Hydros! /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif

    Personally I will be running a hydro up front off of a PTO pump and keep an electric as a backup in the tach box! 99% of the time, with a snorkel and all, the vehichle WILL be running, but for the few times or chance that it might fail, I have friends, and a backup winch! Anyone know how to beef up an electric winch??? Bigger stronger motor, but what about adding planataries to the system to increase torque/speed? /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  19. bigblock44k5

    bigblock44k5 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Posts:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Hurlburt Field, FL
    Hey Batman I know your in the Army and think you know a whole lot about the military, but I've seen first hand on many instances that the military still uses Electric winches quite often. The most recent ones I've seen happened to be just a few months ago on the trucks that are used to tow Navy SEAL boats. They were brand new Warns on 2003 model year trucks.(Fords) /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     
  20. Batmanjr

    Batmanjr 1/2 ton status

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Posts:
    1,537
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Copperas Cove, Texas
    Ok, I'm not saying that isn't true, but there is a huge difference between civilian trucks that the Army uses, and Army vehichles! On every Army vehichle I have ever seen on Fort Hood, They use Hydrolic winches... On every Scout Humvee I work on(About 40 of them) they have removed the outdated Warn electric winches and installed brand new 10.5K MM winches in there place! NOW, I would also like to say, that there is a very clear point to be said, just becuase some big wig in the big white building on the corner, said to change namebrands on the winches in the Army, doesn't make the winches any better! Personnally I hat the hydrolic winches the Army is using today... They are under powered and if they would spend the money on a seperate hydro pump, it might be worth it! Personally I think either winch is underpowered without some modification to the powering unit! If you get an electric winch, upgrade your badderies, if you get a hydro, run it off a seperate pump other than your power steering pump!

    By the way, I don't think I know everything about the military, but when I do know something, I like to speak up! You can no longer order Warn winches through PLL, you might be able to local purchase them, but the military is doing away with them and switching all the humvees over to Hydro MM winches!
     

Share This Page