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Milemarker, or Warn?

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Pookster, May 29, 2002.

  1. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    I hear so many things about winches. Not to start a debate,, and I understand the pro/con's of a hydrolic vs. electric... but I think for the wheeling type I do (long water crossing, mushy sand, + long hill pulls) im leaning toward hydrolic.

    you think the 10,500 one is enough for my uses?

    Was that "mile pull" test accurate? (www.winchtest.com)

    Thanks!
     
  2. TX Mudder

    TX Mudder 1/2 ton status

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    Don't forget that fi your engine is not running, you cannot use the hyd. winch. So if you get are at a precarious angle and the carb won't run, you cannot winch t oa safe spot.
    I don't know anyone who has a hydrl. All the one's I've personally seen are electric.
    -- Mike
     
  3. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Warn.
    That test, other than the problem with the rope being under rated was a bunch of JUNK. I know people with the MM and all hate them after some use. One was replaced by a 8274 as a result. One is in the middle of a lawsuit to get his Z71 repaired when the MM jumped out of gear and sent his truck 40ft into a ravine where it landed on it's side and sat in 2 feet of water for a few days till they could get something out capable of yanking it out because of course you can't run your engine on it's side to run the winch. The MM was not under much load. THe truck was on a slight incline and the guy was tensioning the cable when it happend. He was checking to make sure it wasn't birdsnesting and kicked the cable over to get it to not over lap and the winch let go. THe other guy with the MM experianced it jumping out of gear also but thankfully somebody else was in front of the truck running the winch and he was able to hold the truck with the brakes.
    In real woods I have never seen a properly working warn be beat by a MM EVER!
    Did I mention that they were incredibly slow? I would like to point out how incredibly slow they are. These things are really slow. I mean they are so slow just let them run and go make your self a P&B sandwich using a round tooth pick to spread the Peanut butter and check back after you finish eating it.
    I use to have a rebuttle from Warn about that very site. One of the members of our club wrote Warn about it. They forwarded it to the club. Seem's I deleted it.
    I would get a HS9500i or 8274 for what your dooing. You want line speed especialy when not under heavy load. Once you get unstuck from sand you want to keep moving and not have to stop to wait for the winch. My bud pulled both his (Jeep on D60's and 36's) and my 75 up a hill I got stuck on. He thought he would back down and try to drag me out. No traction to get restarted. Were talking a good 40 deg angle or so frozen dirt hill with NO traction. Hooked a strap between us and both trucks rode his winch up. We had to stop a few times to let the winch cool but I doubt the MM would have done it. I have seen MM's stalled to many times. That was also on a 9000i warn not a 9500.
     
  4. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    I once considered one but the cons got to me. I just don't like the idea that the engine HAS to be running for the winch to operate. If the rig rolls or is at a precarious angle, the engine could die. If you cross deep water and hydro-lock or whatever, your recovery aid would also be helpless. Too many reasons why I might need to winch myself (or others) where the engine may not be running.
     
  5. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    I have a Warn HS9500i and so far the thing has been a champ! I have use it many times already in the 1 year is has been on my K5. Electric is the way to go for peroidic vehical recovery.
    Let the flatbed tow truck guys use the hydrolic winches!
     
  6. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    MM is not your only hydraulic winch choice
    every winch manufacturer has a hydro version of their winches.
    electric winches are only good for light, short duration duty.
    they can suck dual batteries dry in very short time.
    for emergency use you could get an electric, or small brigs n stratton type, driven hydrauilc motor.
    MM tried to use the PS pump and from the negs I have heard from some, others seem to love theirs, it doesnt put out enough volume.
     
  7. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah, im totally not a big fan of the "engine needs to be running" deal. But I think long line/multiple pulls are going to pull 80% of the time. I estimate only 20% of the time the engine will not be / unable ot run. Given that, Im somewhat willing to take the chance of the hydro. I keep hearing from people that these winches are slow. but if they come with two speeds... ?

    I have a 960 CC battery, even if I did a dual with a Red top, I wouldnt be able ot winch for more than 5-10 minutes without draining everything. Granted, if I have to use a full draw for 5-10 minutes, I am pretty screwed to begin with....

    While I only got stuck once (trying to pull someone else out)... I realized at that point that I NEED ONE. Hydrolic or not. Im just thinking that I'll be spending quite a bit of cash to do it.

    Electric option:
    Winch,
    Dual Battery setup ( Battery + Isolator, etc) which will easily add another 300 on top of the cost of the winch.

    So we're looking at 1200 or so for it.

    where as if I did a hydrolic, I can get a milemarker for 800, and about 60 bucks for fittings.

    SO COMPLEX. Though that whole comming out of gear thing scares me though. The volume thing... well, I guess not enough volume = SLOW.

    I guess my question is now.. who's another good Hydrolic winch manufacture?
     
  8. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Scary enough to convince me then.

    PTO or electric, mine will be. PTO would be great.
     
  9. kickinasphalt383

    kickinasphalt383 1/2 ton status

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    well i have a 12,000# MM and i'll give you my input on it. everything Grim said i have experienced. the jumping out of gear( i have figured out how to play around with that so that doesn't happen), slower than slow, and doesn't seem as strong as it should be (not saying its weak, just not as strong as i think it should be).

    but at the same time i like it since it can take SOOOO much abuse from water, snow, ice, mud, whatever (more than i have seen electrics take). and you can pull without worring about it overheating (get a PS cooler though!). never been concerned about the engine not running thing either

    i am glad i didn't get a warn... but i am not really pleased i got a MM, either. I REALLY should have gotten a PTO winch /forums/images/icons/wink.gif , i think those are the best and most reliable winches out there, but hey i run mud. if you run rocks go warn (from my experience at least)
     
  10. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    the speed thing could be addressed with a real hydraulic pump.
    either a belt drive off the motor or off the PTO port on the tranny.difference being PTO drive you lose winch with clutch depressed, belt driven is only motor dependant.
    winch speed become matter of pump size vs winch motor size.
    truck mounted 40000lb hydraulic winches are fast at 900 engine rpm, add rpm and they will outrun any warn hobby electric.

    Warn and Ramsey both make hydro winches to answer Pooksters question, as does Pierce Sales, Braden, Pullmaster, etc

    dont forget to add a high output alternator to the electric wish list, bigger cabling throughout, solenoid troubles.
     
  11. Burt4x4

    Burt4x4 3/4 ton status

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    Ok guys, So why do you see 90% of all real world wheelers use Warn electric? Like the Camel Trophy trucks and all the RockCrawlers and tricked out rigs coast to coast ALL using Warn!!
    Hmmmm........maby cuz THEY WORK!!???
    I say leave the drive train to turning the tires and when it comes to recovery your buddies and a Warn electric is all you will ever need!
    .02c
     
  12. BIGJ

    BIGJ 1/2 ton status Author

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    I used to think hydraulics and PTO's were the only way to go, till last weekend. We had a guy with a PTO winch turn over in a good sized ditch, and get wedged between some rocks. The engine wouldn't run, and he was the only one in his group with a winch. He had to wait for 2 hours before someone with a winch showed up (me and my bud driving down the trail).

    He could have turned the vehicle back up on its wheels if he had an electric. It just took a small side pull and a snatch block. Vehicles couldn't get a strap to him b/c of the steep walls of the ditch and the trees. I have a 9500i and I won't run anything else but warn now. Hydraulics have their place, but an electric is a little more practical for general wheeling.

    BIGJ
     
  13. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    Man, you sound like yoda. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    Lemme look into PTO's for a lil bit.
     
  14. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    sponsorship?
    all electrics work, I have one.
    I have had to use my nasty ancient winch to rescue guys with Warns that simply didnt have the power to pull them out.
    I am thinking that is a function of the electrical system feeding the winch but cant be certain.
    all warns now use planetaries(except the rereleased 8274 which is too small) and a brake.
    I wont run a winch that requires a seperate brake when a worm gear is available and much safer.
     
  15. Pookster

    Pookster 1/2 ton status

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    Little confused here , are you advocating hydrolic or Electric?
     
  16. BIGJ

    BIGJ 1/2 ton status Author

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    No sponsorship, if you were talking to me. Just some observations of warranty work between ramsey and warn. Not to mention getting parts, and some help over the phone.

    Electrics seem to be more suited to the short pulls required for "most" trail situations. PTO's are still cool, heck I wish I had one, but I wouldn't run it on my trail rig. Too many things to mess with, hoses, shafts, gearboxes, and then there's the "vehicle has to be running" thing too. But, electrics also need a good charging system, and probably dual batteries. They both have their drawbacks, guess you just have to pick your poison. Mine's electric.

    Yoda?! Nope. No where near old enough to be wise /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    BIGJ
     
  17. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    they both have their place
    for constant duty hydro wins hands down, not necessarily MM's
    I want a hydro at one end and 'lectric at the other, which ever is lighter up front
     
  18. Jeff427

    Jeff427 1/2 ton status

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    <blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

    the jumping out of gear( i have figured out how to play around with that so that doesn't happen)

    <hr></blockquote>
    Kickinasphalt383, can you post up exactly what you did to keep your MM from jumping out of gear? A friend of mine has one that he hasn't used much yet, so it would be good to know, before he ends up in a sticky situation. Thanks in advance for any info you can share /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.
     
  19. 79Beast

    79Beast 1/2 ton status

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    Ok, for the hydraulic...you CAN boost to output of your power steering pump. You DO have to run a large cooler. I have an electric winch. I have no experience with hydraulic. It you want long durartion power, go PTO.
     
  20. kickinasphalt383

    kickinasphalt383 1/2 ton status

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    its nothing major, just when you swith gears (from high to low for example) it will jump out of gear sometimes when you first start adding tension. all i do, is before i add tension i just run the cable out in low a couple of feet and then run it back in a couple of times. i don't know exactly how these work but i guess sometimes they don't fall into the gear all the way, and need a little extra movement to set in????

    hope that helps
     

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