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Military guys- I have a question for you

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Can Can, Feb 8, 2003.

  1. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Please read this news story and then answer my question(the story is pretty short)- Stressed out Soldier

    Why am I constantly reading about soldiers that are unable to deal with PTSD? I have never served nor have I been in battle(well, armed battle anyways/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif), so maybe it's not fair for me to ask.....I remember reading about all the guys coming home all stressed out after the Gulf, and my first thought was "You guys are stressed after a week of war? How do you think the guys in WWII or Korea felt?". I mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT by these comments, but it just seems odd that people's lives fell apart after a week of combat, especially when that was the career they chose to pursue.

    There are lots of other life-threatening stress-inducing occupations out there. Cops, paramedics, and firefighters deal with danger and death everyday, and I can't remember the last time I read about a cop/FF/medic going public with his stress "problem". I'm not saying that these folks don't have their fair share of stress-related problems, however.

    I guess this is what I'm asking- are there guys you serve with that shouldn't be there? Do some soldiers not realize that being in the Armed Forces may result in them having to go to war? Or is it just that there are more whiners then there used to be?
     
  2. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    Most of these people and laywers are just POS SOB Tree Huggin bastards who need to find blame in aything but themselves. Just like the people who blame tobaco companys for cancer. They should all be shot. Poor poor pitiful me I gues the reason I'm so bitter is because my parents didn't raise me properly and taught me to be responsible for my own actions. PTSD yea right I've shot and been shot at 3 times in my life, I was doing my job and they were doing theres I dont know waht was so f'n stressful about it. And I'm still half-way sane /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  3. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    The guy in that story should be punished more harshly than that... If you're so messed up in your head that you can't be responsible for your actions (and accept that responsibility), there are plenty of institutions that will let you stay there and be drugged up...

    BUT... PTSD is something that does affect people... You can't tell who will be affected in what way by certain things... You might be shot at every day and not be phased, but your buddy over there who took the job not knowing that he actually would be shot at, or how he would react might be messed up for the rest of his life about it... Everyone is different, and it's very obvious when you see people reacting and dealing in different ways...
     
  4. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    I can't really comment from personal experience, just from what I saw and heard while I was in.

    I'll start off with the Desert Storm comments..........I think it presents a twist because of this, while yes the ground war only lasted a week, there were a few battles that went big. Read up on the Battle of 73 Easting between the 2nd ACR and the Iraqis. I knew a guy that was there as a kid fresh out of basic training. This guy was a drunk 24/7, don't know if it was the Irish blood that did it or what he saw during the battle. I'm not one to ask everyone everything when it comes to what they saw, I guess due to the fact that my grandfather that went across Europe with Patton was kind of screwed up from it. But one day, we were talking and the time was right (you just know) and asked him. What he saw during the battle was unimagable, platoon sgt. coming out of his track on fire, arm gone. Other guys that I knew that went over there were blunt about it in saying they did nothing for 8 months then came home. They would laugh about it. One medic that I ran into was messed up by it. He had to go treat a busload of unarmed Iraqis that were shot to sh*t by our guys. From what I have been able to get off of the Web, the Army pretty much covered-up that incident.

    Comparing the Desert Storm vets to other vets can be taxing just for the fact of the situations. One thing one must look out for is the "fake" vet. There's a lot of them out there who will claim the whole boatload just because they are attention whores, and they take away from the guys who really went through the sh*t. One must know some history and even then, it's kind of hard. I always look at some guy wearing the patches and stuff with a cynical eye cause in my experiences, a combat vet, meaning one who has actually had to get shot at and kill other people have a tendancy to not advertise, while the desk pilot will brag about where he had been and what he has done. I've seen it over and over. You have to be careful when reading these stories, it may be some attention whore clown.

    As for comparing military/cops, firefighters, it's like apples and oranges. In this day and age, when a cop shoots/kills someone, that cop 9 times out of ten is taken off the street, has to see a shrink and evaulated before they are allowed back on the street. But the military man just has to suck it up and drive on and keep surviving until their war is over.

    Another thing to look at is the way the military has changed in the way they deploy units. I can't talk about Korea, but the way units were deployed during WW2 compared to Vietnam and this day and age is different.

    In WW2, a unit would be sent to the lines for awhile, then would be pulled back and replaced giving the guys time to refit, rest, so on and so forth. Since Vietnam, a unit has been dropped into whatever and they are there for the most part until whatever happens.

    In Vietnam, somebody correct me if I foul something up. A guy would be sent to a unit already in-country. This unit would be going day in and day out doing whatever they were doing. This guy would be there for a year, I think they would get a 30 day leave halfway through with a chance to get R&R for a couple of days in-between. After a year, if this guy survived, he came home. I would dare to say that unit cohesion pretty muched sucked with this program. Add to what that guy had to put up with, a country that didn't support him, a war that wasn't exactly popular and that's just a whole lot of crap that a guy has to put up with that he shouldn't.



    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    I guess this is what I'm asking- are there guys you serve with that shouldn't be there? Do some soldiers not realize that being in the Armed Forces may result in them having to go to war? Or is it just that there are more whiners then there used to be?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    In my day, a lot of people going in were aware of that possibility. Others were not, and they were not there for flag, mom and apple pie; it was all about college money. The longer I stayed in, the more popular this became. The people coming in were of a different breed and pretty much a bunch of sh*theads. The guys that I remember most are the ones from my first unit. For us, the realization of war was something we were ready for. It all came from the fact that a lot of the NCO's in my unit, when they first came in had been sent to Germany during the bad old days, border duty with the East Germans and Soviets on the other side. That attitude spread upon most everyone in the unit whereas my other two units, there were a couple combat vets here and there but a lot of guys had never had to do border duty anywhere so that realization of combat wasn't something that was thought of.

    And yup, there were more whiners coming in when I got out. Wall to wall counselings were frowned upon.
     
  5. sapper

    sapper 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    One the biggest differences when you compare todays military to that of WW II and Korea is the type of society we are. Think about the changes that have gone on in the last 50-60 years.America as a whole had this crazy thing called a work etthic that has since dissappered. Lazy people have become the rule instead of the exception, and of course the legal system has gotton completly out of hand (think McCdonalds coffe). When those two elements are combined you have people who have a wish and a means to be lazy, blame everyone except themselves (as Stickseler said) and get a hand out. This might sound crazy but a big problem is computers and vidio games. Kids today grow up in front of a screen of some sort. When i was a kid you got your but outside and played with other kids. This might not sound like much but think about the differences. When you go outside and play with others you develope social skills. You learn how to get along or you fight about it and then continue to play. If kids today stay inside they dont develope this and then as young adults they dont have a understanding of why they caint do everything they want to and begin to get in trouble. Once thats starts it takes alot of work to teach this guy/girl what he should of learned playing kick ball in second grade. Todays military would not have won WW II using the same weapons and technology because those were a different type of people with a stronger will and determination. How many of us have grandparents that flew the flag outside year round no matter what? Now it takes something like the Sept. 11th tradgety to happen to squeze patratism out of people. the military is and always has been a reflection of the society that its members come from. I dont know if i helped you understand or even made sense but thats what i think.
     
  6. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    That's a very good point. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. Seventy4Blazer

    Seventy4Blazer 3/4 ton status

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    yup, hit that nail on the head....
    Grant
     
  8. jarheadk5

    jarheadk5 1/2 ton status

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    As the others have said, I think the era that WWII and Korea vets grew up in has a lot to do with not hearing much from them regarding the traumas of warfare. A lot of those guys grew up during the Depression and were just straight-up "tougher" than most folks today. They just didn't complain &amp; whine about things like today's people do.
    A friend of mine's grandfather was a B-17 tailgunner in WWII. Over the course of 50 missions over Germany he'd been shot down twice, crash-landed SIX times, wounded by flak twice, wounded by German fighters three times, and outlived ELEVEN different B-17's. He told us some stories that would stand your hair on end... yet he never talked about not being able to deal with what he saw. He said he just accepted it and moved on.
    Unfortunately, the image of a weak, soft and flabby America is REALITY. I see it in a lot of the new Marines I see, and in the public in general. I'm not saying ALL Americans are soft, but there's more softies than not.
    As far as people in the Armed Forces that shouldn't be there, HELL YES there are!! I've run into quite a few Marines (and soldiers, sailors, and airmen) in my career who were in it solely for the skill training and the college money. They had NO interest in combat training or deploying, they just wanted to learn a skill and get that GI Bill $$$. When it came time to work late, or work a weekend, they were the first ones to b!tch and complain about "MY time".
     
  9. MEPR

    MEPR 1/2 ton status

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    In some respects i think the GI bill has probly hurt our nations armed forces. Thats why we get these "whiney babies" in there. Im probly going to enlist in the army but im not going for collage money im going becouse i feel honour bound to help protect what i have lived in for 18years.
     
  10. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    In some respects i think the GI bill has probly hurt our nations armed forces. Thats why we get these "whiney babies" in there. Im probly going to enlist in the army but im not going for collage money im going becouse i feel honour bound to help protect what i have lived in for 18years.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I will have to agree with ya, but what are they gonna do? If they took away the GI Bill, then recruiting will go way down. Furthermore, if someone is gonna make the sacrifice of serving their country, then the government should give back to them, unfortunately that's the main point when some of these services recruit and nothing about serving the country comes up.
     
  11. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    The GI bill isn't improtant to all people to Join, I never signed up for it. But you are right it would hurt enlistment, look at all tose people that complaind about go in to Saudi the 1st time... " I don't wan't to go, I only joind for the college money" yet another example of how screwed up people are, alwas wanting something for nothing. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    Note to self : Jack, OJ and a fever do not mix, but the coughs gone /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  12. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    The GI bill isn't improtant to all people to Join, I never signed up for it.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Same thing here. When given the choice between bonus or the big, fat college money, I took the bonus; but I got enough college money to be happy. In fact without that money, I would of never been able to afford the schooling I've gotten since I got out. Too bad I couldn't of gotten it to pay for that commercial chopper pilot training I wanted to take.
     
  13. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    When given the choice between bonus or the big, fat college money, I took the bonus

    [/ QUOTE ]

    What bonus, I didn't get no stinkin bonus /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif. Of coursse I was kinda eager to join I wanted to be a Marine since I was 5. Got my parents to sign my permission slip on my 17th birthday and went to boot camp 4 weeks out of HS /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  14. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    What bonus, I didn't get no stinkin bonus . Of coursse I was kinda eager to join I wanted to be a Marine since I was 5. Got my parents to sign my permission slip on my 17th birthday and went to boot camp 4 weeks out of HS

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Army still/was giving bonuses for MOS's that were short handed, I got $3500. I was eager too. I signed up when I was 17, had to wait a year, wasn't happy about that. About halfway through, I asked my recruiter if I was to dropout, get my GED, could I go sooner. He said if I did that, he would rip up my contract and wouldn't let me go in. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  15. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    It's scary how we think alike /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif
    /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  16. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Maybe we're twin brothers from different mothers. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  17. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    As for me and my fellow Air Force troops, I have not seen any PTSD in anyone I know. I have only been to Honduras for 4 months and spent my 1 year tour in Korea. The other 13 1/2 years have been here in then states. Personally I think the guys is looking for an excuse. On the other hand, maybe the Canadian military treats their troops a lot worse than the US. All I know is that I have a gravy job and couldn't begin to find anything as laid back on the outside and still get paid.
    I will be leaving for Jordan this week. Maybe I will have a different view on this when I get back /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif
     

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