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Morman's ????????? Answered & Closed thanks

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by gzzgfw, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. gzzgfw

    gzzgfw 1/2 ton status

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    Just saw a show on TV last night about Mormans in Colorado City? in Arizona. Question is, for those that live out west, are mormans really like they protray on TV. Multiple wifes, have sex with their daughters and grandkids and these little secret communities.

    We have enough pediphiles out there all ready without having to promote it through a religion and protected by a community. What have you guys experienced living in those areas, Utah and Arizona.

    I guess I live a sheltered life living here in smalltown midwest USA?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2005
  2. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    I know they have multiple wives but never heard about the "sex with daughters" thing. I know they are basically a cult. They are not Christians as their marketing/advertising portrays them. They follow the teachings of John Smith. They say they believe the Bible but "only as it relates to the Book of Mormon". Which basically means they "make" the Bible say what they want it to say. They believe that you have to earn your way to heaven and that they will actually become gods when they die. I think they also believe that there are different levels in heaven and how hard you work determines the level you get to. That's why they are so persistent on getting into your home and talking to you. They put alot of miles on those bikes trying to get to heaven. I have done a little studying on them, but I'm not an expert by any means.
     
  3. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I've learned basically the same things. Another way to see it, it's a corporation that tries to buy and sell life.

    Mark Twain had some great commentary on the BOM (I don't know what his religious persuasion was).
    Someone I know and consider a great guy was recently seduced by mormons, and I don't know how to approach getting him away from it without demeaning what he now believes in. He got going on the right track, then mormons swooped in and grabbed him.

    Anyway, to address the question at hand, I've never heard of the sex thing. Good Lord, I don't know how anyone with a child can even think anything like that. I'd originally heard the multiple wives thing, but then I heard from a mormon that it was a different sect of mormonism, and not a true teaching of the modern Mormons. If that's true, and this sect is small enough and tight enough, they may have no problem keeping a secret like that (child sex) for a while at least.

    Mormons aren't really bad people for the most part, just sadly mislead. Like many giant corporations, the top leadership is probably very corrupt and not quite good people, but that doesn't mean the employees are wrong or "bad".
     
  4. BiggerRigger

    BiggerRigger Registered Member

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    You pretty much nailed it. But a part that you left out was if you tell them you dont want to be a member of there church they will single you out in the neiborhood. Like if any ones stuff get messed with they will call the cops and say it was you. Happed to me when I was living there.
    I was home for x-mas for two weeks in Ohio and when I got back there were 3 buisness cards from the police dep. saying they wanted to talk to me so I called them. They came to my house ask who I was and arested me on the spot. Took me to the police station and booked me on charges of burgulary. They said that there were several people in the neiborhood that saw me wandering the streets back and forth to my house carrying x-mas gifts by the arm fulls. A house had gotten robed while I was back home and I got blamed for it. I spent 4 days in jail over it and lost my job for not calling for 4 days. I had to have my grandmother mail a video tape of x-mas to the police dept. to prove I was in Ohio before they droped the charges and let me go.
    All of the lawyers are mormon so you cant sue the p.d. over false arrest
    All of the cops are mormon
    The local paper is owen by the mormons so you cant do any thing there either.
    Long story short if you are a non mormon living in a mormon state you are a criminal untill you can prove different.
    %ucken Mormons :D
    Aaron
     
  5. wasted wages

    wasted wages 3/4 ton status

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    Multiple Wives ,,,

    Multiple wives,,,



    Sounds like they are gluttons for punishment to me,, :eek1:
     
  6. gzzgfw

    gzzgfw 1/2 ton status

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    :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha: :haha:
    True that. Can't keep up and afford one......
     
  7. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    dont get me started
     
  8. Roz

    Roz 1/2 ton status

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    hey now, so not true. there is 2 main types of "mormons" one group is a small number of people that call themselves mormons (the cult) and the other is the organized religion u see normal everyday riding bikes and temples, known as mormons but are actually L.D.S. i have been around them for a long time and are normal people with normal problems but are real nice, hand shake is important to them, and so is thier word.thier family is #1 to em. they DO NOT have more then 1 wife. if i ever needed anything even without asking someone would be there to help. my whole life i have had friends in the church and done work for them. ive spent weeks with them in the woods camping. my ex-wife was LDS. she had mental prob though-was adopted little to late (psycho).
    in short, good experiences and good times.

    im just not religous. but if i had to hang out or join a religion i would vote for em.

    by the way i used to live in liberty lake, WA. man i wish i knew this site when i was living in Wa, could of had some more wheelin buddys :D
     
  9. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    You have to keep in mind that these guys in Colorado City (who just bought land in west TX to start a new compound and get away) are not the Mormons we see in our home towns. They are the F(undamental) LDS Church, not the "mainstream" LDS Church.

    While I agree that the theology is a little wierd with the LDS (special underwear, little white newts, golden tablets, seven levels of heaven, etc) it's not at all the same as the FLDS. The LDS condemns bigamy and child marriage, and the FLDS members are; for lack of a better term "excommunicated" from the LDS church and cannot enter the main temple in SLC, nor technically any other LDS church.

    Most mormons I know are nice, hard working, ethical folks that you wouldn't mind having as neighbors (after they get out of their missionary phase). The FLDS are a bunch of nuts though.
     
  10. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    By studying... You mean you've watched Godmakers and read all the anti-Mormon books and websites out there? Seems a little one-sided to me.

    Have you considered going to http://www.mormon.org to see for yourself what the church is all about? Or do you just spend all of your time reading books and visiting such places as exmormon.com for your info?

    I think if you go to the source itself, such as the official church website, or the missionaries, or just any joe blow member wandering around, you'd be rather shocked to find out that you're about 99% wrong on everything you said in your post... To put it as nicely as possible, it was pretty much 11 sentences of proving you have no clue what you're talking about.

    There's a nice forum at lds.about.com where you can get ALL your misconceptions cleared up :wink1:

    Unless of course you're referring to the FLDS in Colorado City................... They sure do make the 12 Million "real" Mormons look bad :mad:
     
  11. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Well , if the persecution of the original church never happenned . Would they ( mainstream LDS ) still have many wives ????


    I don't care one way or the other , as long as they don't knock on my door :D
     
  12. gzzgfw

    gzzgfw 1/2 ton status

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    Well thanks for all the insight. I didn't know that these kids riding bikes with dress shirts and ties were mormon. We gotem here in Indiana too. Religion is like any thing else, how far and extreme you want to go with it.


    I took a perfectly good blazer and turn it into a tree basher, that by most peoples account isn't normal.

    I'm not bashing mormons just wanted some different opinion and experiences..... Later and out....-Mark
     
  13. Capman2k

    Capman2k 3/4 ton status

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    That was written in 1890.

    Someone explained why plural marriages started and stopped to me not too long ago... Let's see if I can remember what he said.........

    Not sure how exactly they started off, but there was a passage from the Bible involved, about taking care of widows... Then another showing marriage as a commandment (not one of the 10 commandments, just a commandment)...

    When the early LDS were walking (mostly) to Utah, a lot of people died. I haven't seen any numbers, but it was probably a lot given the circumstances. Often times, a father would die. Back in the day, when the man was the leader, and everyone in the family relied on Dad for their stuff and Mom for cooking and such, if Dad died, what was the family left with? A small child can't exactly take over running the family. A woman at the time was "incapable" of running a family. So other male saints took care of these widowed women and made them their wives.

    It sounds weird, yes... I don't think I explained it very well anyway, but that' how I remember it...

    As for why it was stopped, there are various reasons. Once Salt Lake City was settled, there wasn't a need for it anymore. Women didn't need to be taken care of quite as much as they did on the trail. Plus, not as many people were dying, so once the older folks settled in and the kids grew up, they could get married... That and the fact that they couldn't become a state while allowing polygamy pretty much led to the prophet (who leads by the influence of God) saying NO MORE PLURAL MARRIAGE, FOOLS!

    And that's the story as well as I can remember and tell it...

    To answer your question, it doesn't appear that it stopped BECAUSE of persecution... It was just nicely timed, and I wouldn't doubt that the persecution from people and the fact that they wanted Utah to be a state played a big role in the prophet wanting to do something about it...
     
  14. utchev

    utchev Registered Member

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    There is SO much misinformation in this thread it's unbelieveable......


    For actual, accurate information check out mormon.org or lds.org.
     
  15. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Hmmm, while I agree with you on the misinformation, I do not think that the LDS sites which were designed with proselytizing in mind are necessarily the best source for objective information on the church.


    This may be a decent place to look for more informational purposes:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
     
  16. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    When I said "I've done a little studying" I meant "I've done a little studying", and when I said "I'm no expert" I meant "I'm no expert". I wasn't aware that my language was so confusing. I have no doubt that I COULD be wrong on some points. However, I know for a fact I'm RIGHT on some points. Mainly, the fact that Mormons give the impression that they are very similar to Christianity when in fact they are not at all, different "levels" of heaven, and that it is a very "works" based religion. I have never heard of "Godmakers" and I have never read any anti- Mormon books. Although it is comforting to know that there are religions other than Christianily that have "anti" books.
     
  17. utchev

    utchev Registered Member

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    I believe that to be a pretty accurate representation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.......(pretty unbiased as far as I could tell in my quick skimming).


    Probably depends on your definition of Christianity. If you define Christianity as one who believes in Christ and tries to follow and emulate his teachings in their lives, I'd believe they fit that definition. If you define Christianity as based on 'accepted and established' religions, I'm not sure that would fit although most of my beliefs are very similar to a Christian friends as we've chatted about religion (his dad was a minister in Cal. and he had a pretty big chip on his shoulder when he first moved to Utah).

    That is probably best explained on the above website under the title of 'The Plan of Salvation' the different 'levels' ....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
    ........it seems to make sense to me when coupled with 'works' belief (at least to me, but then I've heard it for the past 20 years....)


    I believe you are pointing out that we will be judged on our works and how we treated our fellow man? I believe that to be true, and try to be as honest as I would expect someone to be with me. Basicly the Christian 'Golden Rule' ....


    I'm working on a server issue today and will not be able to debate various points (nor do I want to as I think it's kind of stupid and pointless to debate religious topics, especially over the internet) but I'll try and keep up with this thread a little. I'm no 'expert' at LDS beliefs or any kind of scripture expert (I honestly spend WAY more time working on Jeeps (chev TBI powertrain) and playing with my kids to be a 'scripture expert) , but am LDS and get tired of all the misconceptions.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  18. pauly383

    pauly383 Daddy383 Staff Member Moderator

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    Without getting too into a serious discussion where people end up hating each other ...... I have been to mormon.org to look around .

    I do not believe the same things . Sorry .

    Everyone here is FREE TO Believe what they like .

    Now my reasons for me to personally not believe are :

    I can't fathom Lehi taking people to the Americas , and creating a great civilization . Or that Jesus appeared to the people in the Americas after his ressurection . http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1090-1,00.html



    I have only one thing to say about anything religious . I do not attend Church often , but I do LOVE my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ .

    From Revalation in the New Testament

    13: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
    14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
    15: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
    16: I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
    17: And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
    18: For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
    19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    20: He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
    21: The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
     
  19. Roz

    Roz 1/2 ton status

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    again why organized religion has major flaws, but the one MIAN reason i belive in some of the things LDS teaches is;

    i am a child of god, here on earth for a blink of eternity to learn and follow the path and teachings of jesus -

    so for a blink of eternity i make a wrong chioce, im sent for ETRNITY in to the firey hell of eternal torment and damnation?
    so as a loose camparison-i am a father, not the all knowing and all loving but i love my kids very much and would do what i can for them-even my life. so because they beat someone up, stole something, didnt do what i told them to do for 10 min- or even 10 years, i would never punish them for a life time, let alone ETERNITY? mmmm just makes me sad if that were true.

    LDS belives the suffering u will recieve in the after life is not being in the presence of the lord and our saviour.

    just my opinion but i can deal a little bit more with that then the other option

    again as said before not trying to point fingers or make sore at anyone
    THATS WHY I LOVE THIS COUNTRY! to have this kind converation. now i hope this doesnt go sour.


    like dad said:
    the 2 things that will make a conversation get rough is politics and religion-avoid on blind dates if ure out to get "some" :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  20. utchev

    utchev Registered Member

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    works for me......That's essentially how I feel
     

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