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MTNF tickets

Discussion in 'Midwest Region' started by Chris_T, Jul 8, 2003.

  1. Chris_T

    Chris_T 1/2 ton status

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    Antone else get their MTNF notices yet from the infamous Potosi trip? We have to call and set a date .. should we all try for the same one?
     
  2. Hustler

    Hustler 1/2 ton status

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    Yes I got it. I called and they told me to mail back the slip with a letter saying why you don't feel you need to pay the fine. Then they will contact you back with a date. I sent a long letter explaining what happen and asked if they will just drop the charge or I will fight it in court.
     
  3. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    Yep, got my notice today. I will call tomorrow and see what the story is. If they tell me that I must "write them a letter explaining why I don't want to pay the fine",
    I WILL tell the Attorney General of Eastern Missouri to go piss up a rope!

    I will not beg for a court date.
     
  4. Chris_T

    Chris_T 1/2 ton status

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    I spoke with someone in the office this morning and he offered to knock the ticket down to $25. I told him that I was not interested in that option as I believe I was unfairly ticketed. He said that they had a lot of those tickets and he didn't want to handle them in court - send him a letter.

    For me because of all the hoopla the $25 wasn't an option, but I won't fault anyone else if they choose to go that route.
     
  5. Hustler

    Hustler 1/2 ton status

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    Chris, I talked with Todd this morning and it looks like you talked with the same guy he did. He told Todd the same thing. Maybe since they know we are all going to fight this, they will drop the charges.
     
  6. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Great news guys. Keep us posted. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    I too spoke to the prosecuting attorney on this. His name is Fred Dana.
    Same story....he'll reduce it to $25. I told him, "No way, I'm not guilty. We had better maps than the officer that ticketed us!"

    He then asked me to make a copy of the ticket and write a note about what happened and he says he will probably throw it out.

    Fred Dana
    US Attorney's Office
    111 South 10th Street
    St. Louis, MO 63102

    I will post up a copy of the letter I'm writing as soon as it's finished.


    Do not pay this ticket!!
    Do not pay even $25!!
    We can beat this crap.
    We were unfairly ticketed AND they do not want to mess with it!
     
  8. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    A copy of my letter:

    Fred Dana
    US Attorney’s Office
    111 South 10th Street
    Room 20.333
    St. Louis, MO 63102
    314-539-2200


    Dear Mr. Dana,

    This letter is to inform you of the events that took place on May 24, 2003 in the Mark Twain National Forest on Forest Service Road 2382.

    I and a group of others, were in the Potosi Ranger District of the Mark Twain National Forest for a day of trail riding. We had in our possession the large scale, Quadrangle maps of all the areas that we would be traveling. Knowing the guidelines set forth by the US Forestry Service, we proceeded to travel Forest Service Road 2382. Forest Service Road 2382 travels an area that is shown on both the Courtois and the Palmer Quadrangle maps.

    On these Quadrangle maps, FS RD 2382 is clearly shown as a continuous road. Knowing this, we traveled the complete length of this road. As we approached the end of FS RD 2382, we were stopped by Forest Service Officer Toby Barton. He immediately demanded the driver’s license and proof of insurance from every driver in our group. He then informed us that (in his opinion) we had traveled through a closed area. He stated that there is a section of FS RD 2382 that was closed. Officer Barton was utilizing a smaller scale, lesser quality map of the area to make this judgment. While he began writing the violations, we attempted to show him on our large scale, Quadrangle maps that the road was in fact, a continuous road.

    I personally asked Officer Barton, “How are we supposed to know that a section of a continuous road is closed?” To this he replied, “If the road doesn’t continue on this map, the road is closed.”

    From every piece of MTNF literature I have read, a road or trail is considered open unless it has a physical barrier such as a gate, berm of earth, trench, post, or other device that would discourage passage by a motor vehicle. None of which was on FS RD 2382.

    I stated to Officer Barton that there were no signs or berms, gates or any sort of indication to us that that section of FS RD 2382 was closed. There was absolutely no way for us to know that this section or area had been declared closed. Officer Barton agreed that there is not one indicator on FS RD 2382 but that it is in fact closed. He then proceeded to write every driver in our group a Violation Notice of “Being in a Closed Area” that carries a fine of $100.00.

    To summarize, we attempted to abide by the guidelines set forth by the US Forestry Service, yet we were issued violations anyway. If the area that we traveled through is closed, there was NO indication in any way to us. Mr. Dana, we politely request that all charges of violations written by Officer Barton to the driver’s in our group be dropped.

    Thank you for your assistance.


    Sincerely,



    To all that received violations, copy this letter and mail it to him ASAP.

    todd
     
  9. ColAdo82K5

    ColAdo82K5 1/2 ton status

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    OK guys....to the top...who has heard anything back ? I don't want to have a surprise warrant out for my arrest...
    I sent my letter in many moons ago, but have yet to hear much.
    Blake
     
  10. Hustler

    Hustler 1/2 ton status

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    Blake,
    I haven't heard anything either. I guess no news is good news.
     
  11. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    I called last Wed and left Fred Dana a voice mail....I've heard nothing since.

    I called on Thursday and talked to a secretary. I asked her when my court date was and she tells me that if there is a dollar amount that they dont give court dates....and they expect payment in full. I explained to her that I have already spoken to Fred Dana (she was shocked) and that he should have received my letter of explaination by now. She then knew that I was in a group that had received violations but was not willing to pay. She says that Fred will respond when he sorts the matter out.

    IMO, they are using a scare tactic by not forwardly offering a court date...."they expect payment if full."

    This will not happen from me until I receive MY day in court...with Toby Barton present...& possibly with an attorney standing next to me!!
     
  12. Stroked72Blazer

    Stroked72Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    I wonder how well a flooding of non ticketed members writing leters would influence these a$$ holes to make a just desision. After all many poeple in the judicial system have political asperations. It wouldnt be wise to piss off a large group of poeple over less than a grand in fines.
     
  13. OFFRDK5

    OFFRDK5 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Little late now, but just remember about return reciept mail with signature. They know you mean business when you do that. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  14. Chris_T

    Chris_T 1/2 ton status

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    Uhh ... if he's waiting for all the letters .. I just got off my ass and sent it last week. I kinda forgot about it with the trips I made, but it should be there by now.
     
  15. Hustler

    Hustler 1/2 ton status

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    Just wondering if anyone heard anything yet? I would hate to get pulled over and find out that there is a warrant out.
     
  16. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    Haven't heard a thing. I left a voice mail for Fred but he has not returned my call. I would hope they at least notify us if they drop the charges.
     
  17. ColAdo82K5

    ColAdo82K5 1/2 ton status

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    WELL WELL !!!
    I just got a notice in the mail stating that I need to pay my fine by OCt 17 or else they will take further action. The payment is supposed to be sent to our good friend Fred Dana which has never returned a phone call.
    Enclosed with this short letter is a photo copy or the original ticket and the "what happened according to toby Barton part of the ticket". On this portion is the GPS coordinates. Toby writes that to get to the portion of road we were on, we had to go through a clsed portion of road.

    So, I wrote my stupid letter to fred dana, but this crap is still not cleared...load of horse poo....

    Blake
     
  18. Chris_T

    Chris_T 1/2 ton status

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    I hope further action is a day in court - when I talked to Mr. Dana he really wanted to avoid that
     
  19. Hustler

    Hustler 1/2 ton status

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    I think we all need to call Fred each day and everyday until he talks with us about this. Maybe if we bug him enough, he will drop this or just give us are day in court.
     
  20. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    I still have not received ANY reply from Fred Dana.
    I will not pay this until I have a day in court.
     

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