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My 6.2L turbo project update

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by arveetek, Jun 5, 2004.

  1. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    As many of you know, I've been assembling a turbo system for my '81 for quite a while now.

    It all began in the fall of 2001, when I aquired a used Garret turbocharger from an individual. This turbo had been used on a 6.9L/7.3L Ford, probably from an ATS kit.

    Since then, I have been slowly getting all the rest of the bits and pieces I've needed. I bought a new Banks turbo exhaust manifold, machined an adapter to bolt the turbo to the manifold, bought a new round air filter assy. off ebay, a new Banks crossover pipe, fabbed up an oil return system, purchased a new steel-braided oil feed line and Autometer boost guage from Summit racing, machined a 3" exhaust outlet for the turbo, bought 3" pipe to make a downpipe, purchased a like new Kennedy 4" muffler from another DP member, and bought a new 4" chrome tip off ebay.

    Last night I brought home one of the last big purchases: all the rest of the 4" exhaust system. I got a 3" to 4" adapter, a section of 4" pipe, and enough mandrel-bent elbows to go over the axle. I was giddy! I found a local supply store that handles exhaust systems for big trucks, and they have all kinds of exhaust system components in 3" and up. I was able to walk the aisles and just pick out all the pieces I needed!

    The cost for the entire 4" exhaust system, including muffler and downpipe, comes in around $200. Not too bad, considering a new system for a Duramax or other new truck costs around $400 to $600!

    I also bought a new harmonic balancer from the dealer last night. Mine's starting to show squished-out rubber. Now's the time to replace it.

    The very last piece I'm working on is the pressure chamber, the part that replaces the air cleaner and fits over the top of the intake manifold. I was going to have one made out of some aluminum tread plate I have, but it was going to cost too much. I now have the machine shop working on making me one out of some aluminum pipe. Haven't got the price on that one yet.

    I plan to start assembly next Saturday. It's taken me 3 years to get this all together, but I've definitely saved a lot of money. Instead of $2000 for a Banks Sidewinder and $400 for an exhaust system, I estimate I'll have around $500 to $600 invested in the whole setup.

    I can't wait to get started!

    Casey
     
  2. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    That's great.
    Good luck
    I took the easy route, I bought a truck with the TURBO on it.
    I almost bought the truck just for the turbo.
    It was 3/4 ton 4wd with the ATS turbo and a bad engine for $1300.
    You think that was good enough?
    Well anyway you will have the satisfaction of having made your setup, which I do most of the time.
    This time I just lucked out.
    Let us know how it works out and if it's better than the ATS that I have as far as the setup goes let me know I might do the same.
    I already have the turbo but I don't like how the down pipes are and I would like to make it better.
    /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif
     
  3. azblazor

    azblazor 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Casey,
    You are an inspiration in thrift and patience. I am going to print this for my son. He (and I) are trying to get his 6.2 Suburban running. He just broke a bolt off putting on the rear main last night /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif He did recieve his high flow cooling kit from Penisular Diesel yesterday /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif He wants to turbo it but can't afford the kit....so your method is a good thing to let us all follow.
    Thanks
     
  4. Steve_87K5

    Steve_87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Casey, does your system use a waste gate? How much boost are you expecting? Would Banks sell you just an air box for less $ than the machine shop cost?

    The donor truck I am taking parts from had a Banks on it which blocked #8 glow. Do you see a way of fabricating some kind of flange in that area on the downpipe, which could maybe be unbolted to get at #8? BTW, I've been collecting parts for over 3 yrs also.
     
  5. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Casey, does your system use a waste gate? How much boost are you expecting? Would Banks sell you just an air box for less $ than the machine shop cost?

    The donor truck I am taking parts from had a Banks on it which blocked #8 glow. Do you see a way of fabricating some kind of flange in that area on the downpipe, which could maybe be unbolted to get at #8? BTW, I've been collecting parts for over 3 yrs also.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No waste gate on this turbo. I'm hoping for around 10-12 psi maximum.

    Banks wants $187.00 for the aluminum pressure chamber! /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif I can surely make something cheaper.

    I'm going to make the downpipe by hand, so I really don't know what I'm going to run into as far as clearance issues go. I have a straight piece of 3" pipe and a couple of mandrel-bent elbows. I'll just have to wait until the turbo is mounted on the engine in the truck and see what I can do. Right now I've just got the system mocked up on my spare 6.2L on the engine stand in my shop. I can't really fabricate the downpipe until it's in the truck.

    Casey
     
  6. imiceman44

    imiceman44 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Casey, does your system use a waste gate? How much boost are you expecting? Would Banks sell you just an air box for less $ than the machine shop cost?

    The donor truck I am taking parts from had a Banks on it which blocked #8 glow. Do you see a way of fabricating some kind of flange in that area on the downpipe, which could maybe be unbolted to get at #8? BTW, I've been collecting parts for over 3 yrs also.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah I have yet to see a setup for the 6.2 that doesn't get in the way.
    I have the ATS turbo setup and same here, I have a few blocked not just one.
    /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  7. Steve_87K5

    Steve_87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Removing the Banks downpipe from my donor truck was a pain. The fit is very tight. Not practical to remove/replace it for maintenance of #8. Really need a maintainable design.

    What about an easily removed section of custom down pipe?
    Like two springy stainless clamps, say 3" wide 22GA or so, right under the turbo? Built kinda like a piston ring compressor. Take these out and a chunk of pipe slides out? I dunno. I haven't gotten to the mock up stage yet.
     
  8. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    6-15-04 update:

    On Saturday I got started with the install. As of last night, I now have the turbo mounted in the truck!

    I started by removing my current exhaust system, removing the right hand side exhaust manifold, removing the mechanical fuel pump, removing the lower radiator hose, and installing the new Banks manifold.

    The first problem I ran into was that the new Banks radiator hose wouldn't fit. I ordered the hose from Banks because their instructions say that I needed it to clear the crossover pipe. Well, since my truck is a converted from-gas-to-diesel truck, the radiator doesn't sit in exactly the same place....it's about 3 inches closer to the passenger side where it normally would be due to the a/c condenser lines coming in on the other side. The factory style hose has enough give to it to line up and work just fine. The Banks hose wouldn't even begin to fit. So I just left it off until I got the crossover pipe installed.

    Next, I discovered that the turbo wouldn't bolt up to the manifold because it hit the inner wheel well! Looks like the Banks turbo sits up higher on it's mounting than this Garret turbo does. A block of wood and a sledge hammer allowed me to "massage" the inner fender to give me enough clearance. That problem was solved.

    After setting the turbo on the manifold, I had to re-work my oil return. No biggie really. I ditched the mechanical fuel pump, got a block-off plate from the dealer, drilled a hole in the plate, and welded a 3/8" pipe fitting to the plate. I made the rest of the return system out of 3/8" steel pipe.

    Next, I installed the electric fuel pump. No problem there.

    Next, I installed the crossover pipe. Ran into another problem: the pipe Banks sent me was designed to bolt up to the EPR valve on the driver's side manifold. I lost that valve years ago. I thought it would still fit, but I lacked 1" of getting it to line up, due to the pipe hitting the motor mount. I ended up cutting the pipe and welding in a 1.5" section of pipe to make it longer. Got the crossover pipe installed.

    Next, I was able to try the radiator hose again. I got a new factory style hose and it fit just fine. The clearance is tight to the crossover pipe, but with some heat-shielding, should be just fine. Anybody need a brand new Banks radiator hose?

    Last thing I did last night was install the turbo permanently onto the manifold. Now I can start fabbing up the exhaust down pipe. I'm really surprised how low the turbo sits in the truck.....it rides right above the frame rail. It does sit lower than the Banks turbo would sit.

    I've had to move some of my wiring to make room for the turbo, so I'll have to do a little re-wiring.

    I'll probably do the wiring next, then fab up the down pipe, then install the oil feed line, and then start working on the pressure system. Still have to work out where to install the air cleaner.

    I do have the pressure chamber in my hands now... machine shop made it for me out of 6" pipe and welded a top on it and a 2 3/8" pipe on the side to hook up my pressure pipes to. I could have made it myself, but I just didn't have time to track down all the pieces and weld it up. I also bought a nice looking 6.5L "Turbo Power" engine cover to dress it all up.

    I'm making progress! It's a slow process, but it will be worth it! Having a complete kit from Banks would have been nice and much, much simpler, but I am saving so much money this way that it makes it worthwile, plus I'll have a very unique truck when I'm all done.

    Casey
     
  9. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    6-16-04 update:

    I finished up all the wiring last night.

    Today, I've got the 3" downpipe made! That was actually rather simple. I used a pre-formed 3" mandrel-bent 45 degree elbow to exit down past the engine. I only had to make one cut and weld to hook the elbow to the turbo. Didn't take long at all.

    I'm going to use two clamps on the downpipe: one at the top where it joints near the turbo, and one at the bottom where it joins the rest of the exhaust system. This way, I can remove the pipe when needed. If I left it all one piece, I wouldn't be able to remove it without cutting it out!

    The downpipe and turbo sit low enough that there is no problem removing injectors or glow plugs on that side of the engine.

    I now have pics uploaded of my progress. You can see them at:

    http://community.webshots.com/album/153303040IeQyIu

    Casey
     
  10. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    SHE RUNS!!!

    I got the oil feed line installed and bled, and decided to fire it up and see what happened. Everything seems to be A-Okay. The blower definitely works!

    Now I can get started on the pressure system and work out the air cleaner and CDR issues.

    Casey
     
  11. smprider112

    smprider112 1/2 ton status

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    DAMN!! thats pretty badass! you need to find more junkyard turbos, and make a kit and sell em /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif what did it all cost ya?
     
  12. blasterD

    blasterD 1/2 ton status

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    This is an awesome project. /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif I have a question regarding the sizing of the turbo. I know the problems with running too much boost on a gas engine, but what about on a diesel. In my mind more boost would just provide more air and a cooloer egt. Other than a bigger turbo having more tubo lag, is there a limit to how much boost you can run with a diesel? Also can you post up some pics of how the crossover pipe fits into the system. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Boost creates heat. Same as the compression stroke creates enough heat to self ignite the diesel fuel injected into the cylinder.

    Boost also puts a lot more stress on the bottom end. I'd say 6-10 psi is about as much as you want to run unless you have a very fresh engine. Much more and you aren't going to be gaining anything due to the heat being generated...which gets you into intercooler territory to see further gains.

    Rene
     
  14. smprider112

    smprider112 1/2 ton status

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    If you have ever seen or heard of Diesel drags...they have some trucks faster then most Sports cars!! And some guys I have heard are running like 99 pounds of boost!!! something you could never get away with a gas engine! On a side note...would putting a turbo on a motor with probably 200,000 miles or more be a bad idea?? even with low boost? or Would I just be asking for probs?
     
  15. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    The crew cab I got a while back hits 15 lbs pretty easy with the stock Banks turbo, although like you said the temps at the inlet manifold are very high most likely and thus the effect of the boost is not as prevalent as it would be if I had an intercooler.
     
  16. dallassnowman

    dallassnowman 1/2 ton status

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    Where did you get the electric fuel pump??
    My lift pump just went out, truck is at work.
    What do I need to do to use electric fuel pump??
    /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif H E L P ? ? ? ?
     
  17. Steve_87K5

    Steve_87K5 1/2 ton status

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    AutoZone sells a small generic in-line electric pump, looks almost like a fuel filter. Has wires sticking out of it. The DB2 likes to see about 5PSI.
     
  18. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    6-21-04 Update:

    PROJECT FINISHED!!

    I've been really busy the last several days, so I haven't had time to update ya'll on my progress.

    The next step was to make a pressure system from the turbo to the pressure chamber mounted on the intake manifold. I made one from ABS plastic pipe and fittings. I'm not sure how well it will hold up under the heat, but so far it's working good. I will probably end up replacing it with a metal system, but at least now I have a pattern.

    I then made the air filter system. The orginal tractor-style cartridge air filter assembly I had purchased was too large to fit anywhere underneath the hood, at least not in a way that pleased me. So, I ditched that and used a universal-style 3" cone-shaped filter, and mounted it underneath the passenger side battery tray. I also cut a hole in the radiator support for a fresh, cold air intake. You can see pics of this in my photo album.

    I welded a 1" hose fitting into the air intake pipe, and ran a hose from there up to the CDR valve.

    I installed an Auto-meter Sport comp boost guage.

    After that, I was pretty much finished with the turbo installation. I then went on to building the 4" exhaust system, which was really much easier than I anticipated.

    So, now the moment you've all been waiting for: the results!

    Well, at full throttle acceleration, I've seen a max. so far of 11 lbs of boost at 1000 degrees EGT. Yippee! That's what I was hoping for! I didn't want too much boost, 'cause I wanted reliablility more than anything, but I also wanted more than the typical 7 psi boost that Banks owners usually get. I've noticed the EGT's run around 200 degrees cooler than before at cruising speeds. I can mash on the throttle and get an almost instant 5 lbs of boost before she starts building with the rpms.

    I used to have EGT's in excess of 1300 degrees. I can't wait to hook up a trailer and see what happens now!

    And the sound! Oh my, the sound of the engine/turbo/exhaust is absolutely brilliant! I can hear the turbo sing to me even at idle and just cruising around, but then she really begins to whislte and whine when under power. And the Kennedy muffler lets just enough sound through to deliver this deep rumble that lets you know you've got something underneath the hood.

    I'm so giddy! I can't believe I've actually pulled this off after all this time.

    I'll continue to update you on performance issues as time goes on.

    I have updated pics showing the turbo and exhaust system at:

    http://community.webshots.com/album/153303040IeQyIu

    Casey
     
  19. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Nice job Casey...now come and do mine!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    How much difference did you notice acceleration wise? Do you figure you gained more than the Banks set-up would have netted you?

    Rene
     
  20. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Nice job Casey...now come and do mine!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif This was such a chore, and I'm not too enthused about doing it again for a while! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif It was a pretty major undertaking.

    [ QUOTE ]
    How much difference did you notice acceleration wise? Do you figure you gained more than the Banks set-up would have netted you?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I can really feel a difference in acceleration, especially when the rpms and boost gets way up there. Before, it would accelerate at a constant speed, but now, as the rpms climb and the boost builds, it just keeps pulling harder and harder.

    I went up one of the local big hills yesterday, and before, I could mash it down in third gear, and it would maintain speed going up, maybe even accelerate a little bit if I had a tail wind. Now, when I mash it down, it just keeps going and going, accelerating until I get to the top!

    A definite seat-of-the-pants improvement!

    I don't know if I have a better performing system than the Banks Sidewinder or not. My only real first-hand experience with the Banks setup was on my Dad's '83 6.2L. He could only get about 7 psi out of it, but he had a more restricted exhaust, and that was a much older system. From what I have read and studied, a lot of Banks owners can get up to 15 psi out of their Sidewinders, with the proper fuel adjustments and free-flowing exhaust. However, one thing I have noticed, is that they often complain of no off-the-line performance, and that they don't build boost until the higher rpm range. That's why some of them change to the Banks MHI wastegated turbo. My turbo, however, will build a few pounds of boost in overdrive! Also, I can mash on the throttle and have a near instant 5 lbs of boost, which continues to build quickly after that. I don't see a need for a wastegate in my case.

    Casey
     

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