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My integrity and honesty in question: Help

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mountainexplorer, May 30, 2005.

  1. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    I feel trouble right now. I got a call from a friend, who is concerned with prior dealing.

    I sold him a 10-spline NP205 T-case and his friend a TH400 transmission with a 203 T-case last year. The projects are slowly coming together.

    He called me today, concerned because he was told by someone that the T-case I sold him was not a 205 but a 203.

    Now, I may not be the most knowledgable person, but I know the difference between a 203 and a 205. I KNOW for a fact I dropped off a 10-spline NP205 T-case that came out of a truck I drove. I personally picked it up and set it down alone. Im not strong enough to do that with a 203.

    Here's the part I'll have issues with. They had a 27-spline NP203 t-case there already. I had told him it was a chain driven 203 in the past. So, I know the same facts that he knows. They have 3 transfer cases, two individual and one behind the 400.

    They both say they remember the one they had bought previousely, and it was the one he found out was a 205. And the one I dropped off individually was a 203.

    I will stake all that I own that I sold and delivered a 205 transfer case. I offered to go out there tomorrow and positively ID what I gave them. But, I have a feeling that no matter what I say, it sounds like they have it in their minds that the T-case they had prior was the 205.

    So, what am I supposed to do? They trusted me in good faith and I trusted them as well. I know I wouldn't even mistakenly given the wrong T-case because I know what one and the other is.

    I'll go out there and tell them exactly the truth, and what I know. But what if my word is accused of being false. I know I'm right, I'll stake my faith in God and everything I own, all my Dana 60s and rigs on that... but sometimes one persons word has no way of being proven.

    I'm bothered by this, because I know I haven't by any means tried to screw anyone over, and I want to maintain friendships.
     
  2. BIG*RED

    BIG*RED 1/2 ton status

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    just reach back and pimp slap them :D ..no j/k thats hard to say some people just have their minds set on something and no matter what you say, they won't agree..heres a tip for the future that i use my self...when you sell something, write down part and serial numbers, and if possible take pics..that way when and if they come back at you..you have the pics and part numbers to prove that you are indeed correct..
     
  3. fordeater

    fordeater 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    it would be hard for allan to take pictures and write down everything he sells. That list would fill his shop. I would go check it out and just tell them that you know what you dropped off. If they don't like it, tough.
     
  4. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    Sounds fishy to me, I think Fordeater is right.

    Have you ever tried to pick up a 203. I have twice onto my bench and paid dearly each time. I guarantee your marbles would be reminding you of the experience.

    Worst case go ID the 205 you dropped off. Don't screw yourself because your a nice guy and don't want to cause problems.
     
  5. mikey_d05

    mikey_d05 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I know you're trying to maintain friendships and such but there is such a thing as being too nice. I've been screwed several times because I took the nice way out and not the way I should have. If you dropped off the case by yourself, unless you're a neanderthal, it was probably a 205. If they can't tell the difference between a 203 and a 205, they really shouldn't be building vehicles anyways.
     
  6. TSGB

    TSGB 1 ton status

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    I don't know...

    He does have the caveman rep...
     
  7. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    It's a tough call. Frankly, I'm caught off guard and don't know what to think.

    I'm never going to be one to accuse someone else of deceipt. But I'm getting some fishy things being told to me.

    The TH400 and 203 I sold him was exactly that. I told him it came out of a '77 3/4 ton 4x4 flatbed. I personally drove the truck and plowed with it a winter. It was behind a 454... another friend bought the 454.

    I Do remember specifically saying it was a fulltime 203, NOT a 205, and it drove fine in the truck. He said I had implied to them that the 400 had a 205 behind it as well. I never tried to say the 203 was a 205. I'm pretty sure I specified how to put a part-time kit in it, yet he said I never did. This is where I'm getting some fishy feeling. But I didn't argue that point too much.

    The other transfer case is the main concern. I did NOT drop off a 203 and say it was a 205. I dropped off a 205 and said it was a 205. They had a TH350 version 203 there before and I saw it and told him.

    BUT, now they say that 203 is what I dropped off, and the 205 was purchased from another guy who has visually verified it.

    So this means its my word against theres? Why should it be this way? I guess I do have to start taking down serial numbers and making receipts for everything that passes through here.

    I'll take a lie detector test, go to small claims court... it wont bother me. It will be a pain and hassle, but if they need to go that far, I have nothing to hide. I'll never knowingly lie to someone or try and pull one over on them. I admit I make mistakes. If there were any question as to me goofing up, I'd admit it or entertain the possibility.

    He has always been a fair person, and seemed honest and trustworthy. This is why I'm so confused over this.

    My facts are I sold him a 205 10-spline T-case for $100, and his friend a TH400 and NP203 T-case for I believe $300 or $325. What I delivered is what I sold them.

    I hate having to get defensive, but its like someone trying to force you into saying the color white isn't white. I haven't lied to them before and won't now. I don't have any direct witnesses but I can call on about 20 people I trade and deal with regularly, and they can tell anyone what they think of me.

    I'm going over there tomorrow in person to ID my old 205 t-case. If they don't believe me face to face, then what can I do? I can only tell them the truth.

    As if I need this stress right now. :crazy:
     
  8. fordeater

    fordeater 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    just tell them you dropped off a 205, and if they want to fight they can. But, what are the chances of somebody taking that to small claims court. I would just call them on their bluff and let it go
     
  9. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    i've got 2 words to say if they're going to treat a "friend" that way...

    **** (rhymes with TRUCK) THEM!

    dont need friends like that anyways. next thing you know, they'll be accusing you of selling them a 10 bolt as a Dana 60.
     
  10. divorced

    divorced 3/4 ton status

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    So they are saying that you dropped off a 203 instead of a 205? Where they there when you delivered the items? How long ago was it?

    Edit: just noticed my post count hit the big 2K! :D
     
  11. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    Well, I like to maintain friendships.

    But, I cant figure out whats going on over there. I mean, this is an older guy (not old... but not some young punk kid).

    I sold him the 205 a long time ago... over a year, and it stayed in my garage from then until I delivered it last October.

    The 400/203 were in the truck, and right after I pulled them, they got loaded on my trailer and everything went there all at once. I also remember him asking me about the 400/203 cause he saw it in my parts ad... so why would he say I tried to imply it was a 205?

    He felt kind of offended when I mentioned the possibility that I was saying he was wrong... asking me if I was calling him a liar. Well... what am I being accused of here?

    I shouldn't let these things bother me when I know I'm right, but its just rediculous. I'm not used to being accused of anything like this cause I don't. In my opinion, its stupid to lie to someone cause it will always come back to you later. Being up front and honest always pays off in the long run. I'd rather be fair, honest, and not make money off friends, rather than try and steal, cheat or make money off them.

    I treat my hobby as a business, and cheating isnt good business. It also goes against my morals and beliefs as a Christian. God knows what has really happened here, and what the truth is. I really hope theres not something more going on here, and its just a misunderstanding. But based on my talk on the phone, I already know what they have decided. And I'll still go over there face to face and explain the truth. I was going to tonight but he said not to cause it was too late.
     
  12. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    They were both there. A friend and I went out and dropped off a frame I gave him, and the 400/203 and the 205.

    I unloaded and carried the 205 myself (which proves to me that it wasn't a 203, but isn't solid evidence). My friend that was with me remembers the trip we made to drop it all off, but not what the specific deals were or what each t-case was.
     
  13. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    that seals it right there... it took him a year to figure out that he had a chain driven case, rather than a gear driven case. (supposedly) tell him to take a hike. no sense in getting worked up over it.
     
  14. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    Well, he's saying that when I deliverde it, I tried to pull one over on them and gave him a 203 instead and kept the 205. It wasn't said so bluntly, but it boils down to that.
     
  15. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    He has both the 203 and the 205 there...ask him if he remembers you carrying the T-case you sold him (the individual case) by yourself. If he admits that you did carry it yourself ask him to first pick up the 205. Then ask him to try the 203 by himself...

    Logic is on your side, so use it.

    Explain to him that misrepresenting parts in your case would be plainly stupid. Number one, you treat this as a business, number two this guy is a 'friend' (or was anyways) and lastly because you do this as a business you are 100% certain what you dropped off (it's not like you're a newb looking at his first T-case...) On top of all this, we're talking about two t-cases of roughly equal value anyways.

    If after all of that they still try and insist you duped them it's time to tell them to just STFU and walk away. At that point nothing you say or do will ever change their minds.

    Rene
     
  16. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    I tried reasoning already, and I can already tell their minds are made up... or something's going on. Still seems fishy to me, but I wont accuse him or either of them of anything other than a misunderstanding at this point.

    Me carrying a 205 is probably of no proof to them. I dont think they even saw it or won't claim to remember.

    I once traded gears with another friend. He got my 4.10s and I got his 4.56s, and I paid for the rear gear swap, and to save money, I swapped him whole front ends. His front end had worn brakes, and a bent tie rod. Mine wasn't perfect and had run big tires on it, but I never had any problems with it. He ended up a year later having to replace bearings, spindles and hubs after doing brakes and other parts replacements on it. To be nice, I split the cost with him of the new parts... because they parts had signs of water damage... which would have been me driving in water in the past. Even though it wasn't totally my responsibility, I did my part to be more than fair. The Dana 60 I got from him is still in it's as-is condition and needs work itself, but I dont drive it daily so I don't care.

    If I suddenly just try and do what they want me to, in order to be fair, then I feel like I'll be admitting guilt to something I didn't do. With the front axle swap with the other friend, I knew that my previous use of the axle was part of the damage... so I assumed partial fault.

    Theres no partial fault here though. I hate to have to walk away leaving someone upset, but I'll have to do it if thats the way it turns out. If I get any badmouthing or any harm back towards me, I won't retaliate. I like keeping everyone happy, but I can only do so much and honesty can't be compromised.
     
  17. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Must be somethin in the name as I, like you, try to please everybody all the time regardless of what I feel about it. :)

    However, it seems to me that they are trying to get another 205 out of you and claiming that their old dirty 203 is what you dropped off. If they are adamant about it and it comes to a shouting match type of a deal, then just hop in your truck and don't look back.

    Bad word of mouth is not a good thing but a bad taste in your mouth when you know you are right is worse.

    Stick to your guns and I doubt you'll ever notice any repercussions that amount to anything.
     
  18. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    I guess if its all honest feelings from them and they believe everything they have told me so far, then its to the point I can't trust either of them anymore. In hate to say it, but if you wrongfully try to pull one over on me, thats it.

    I had one deal I made in good faith years back... an '80 Blazer I was supposed to get for parts. I gave a TH350- version 205, 12 bolt 3.73 rear end, and a bunch of other parts as a partial trade towards it... then he took off, along with a debt of about $1500 owed to another friend of mine and tanks froma torch setup that belonged to another friend; as well as an adapter belonging to another friend. So we all learned about him... and he hasn't been seen since.

    I had a part-time 400 version 203 T-case a while back, and opted to trade it for a fulltime 400 version 203. I got a 350 version 203 back instead... but I dealt with it cause it was a partial miscommunication on my part. Then I get word that the 203 I dropped off wasnt a 400 version either. This was another one of those black or white calls for me, cause I personally counted the splines before I loaded it and it was the only one I had at the time. I gave him my word I knew what I dropped of was what I said, and I know 100% it was. To my knowledge, we are ok and I have no problems with him at all. Sometimes misunderstandings occur.

    These are the only bad deals or miscommunications Ive had in the past few years, and I have nothing about any of them to hide.

    Sorry I'm writing so much here. I'm just bothered about it all cause I know deep down what I've always tried to do- be honest open and fair, then this happens and it feels like a stab in the back.
     
  19. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    It's all good, Allan.

    Just be brutally honest and straight forward with them and all will be well or it won't. Either way as long as your conscious is clear then to hell with'em.

    The fact that you're gettin wishy washy impressions from them speaks volumes to me.
     
  20. mountainexplorer

    mountainexplorer 1/2 ton status

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    The fishy feeling I'm getting bothers me most. Its like you get to know someone to a point after so long, and everything is fine... then when this happened, it seemed way out of character for him.

    I'll admit to being guilty of some things. Sometimes I have to ask for volunteers or help to get things done. I often try to do more than one person is able to. He helped tons when I promised some cars for the monster truck show last fall... he drove to my place in Ione and basically pulled a motor out of a Volare and helped us load it. I wasn't able to give him anything except free tickets... and all I got was to drop off my $50 car for free, spent another $90 in fuel, and none of us even got mentioned like we were supposed to.

    So, sometimes knowing me or helping me is a thankless task. I do so many things that people sometimes help me with and I cant afford to pay them. Maybe I should? Maybe I should give up one of my trucks and pay people for their volunteer help they've given me.

    I've considered that as a possibility in this case... but I usually try and always give parts and stuff in return... and if anyone feels I owe them more, I'd expect them to just tell me so.

    I've gotten everything I have now without stealing, cheating or lying. I'll admit I've made money off deals in the past selling some stuff or trading up, and profitted enough to pay for my gas, trips or my own parts for the fleet. But I always tell someone what I want for a part... or even let them give me what they think is fair, and if need be, I'll tell them where I got it, and how much I'm into it. For friends I try and pass on parts for what I'm into them. Some stuff I get for nearly free, and other stuff I end up paying nearly full price for myself. I've let people profit off me before too, intentionally.

    It all boils down to me working on my trucks. I do what I do to keep my hobby alive, but I'll never jeapordize my morality or honesty. I'd rather give up all I have than live as a liar or cheat.
     

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