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Narrowing the rear.

Discussion in 'Center Of Gravity' started by Sandman, Nov 3, 2003.

  1. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Since the front is on the home stretch. I think I see a way to taper in the rear also. I'm thinking of taking out the inner fenderwells and then sectioning out the floor in a "V" shape, bend in the sides and reweld the foor and the supports. The bedsides are already loose from the mounts do to Upper Hell. Has anybody tried this? A few weeks, and it looks like I will be giving it a shot.

    After I cut off the roof. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  2. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    LOL! It's hard to stop cutting once you start, isn't it!

    I'm not sure I would do it with a "V". That would mean completely redoing the mount system on the frame. The wheel wells and bed corrugation will also be funky.

    Haven't thought much about it, but off the top of my head, I think I would cut about 1" inside the lip of the floor on each side, then cut away the necessary material on each side so that they could be pulled in and welded. Worst part will probably be making the corrugated floor look right. I’ve dealt with this by:

    1) Weld the lower horizontal sections to the flat piece.
    2) Use a cutting wheel to make a 1/4” deep horizontal notch on each vertical part.
    3) Use a hammer to roll the edge to the same level as the lower sections.
    4) Weld notch and bent down lip.

    This works well on the end with perpendicular ribs, but it will be harder to get a smooth and even “roll” with the long diagonals cutting across.

    The inner fenders are still going to be a bit troublesome because the opening is going to move slightly forward, but I don’t think it will be too bad. The gas filler can moved with the sectioned floor and the rubber hose shortened to make up the difference (assuming no fuel cell is desired).

    Tail gate will be a bit of an issue. However, you can probably cut down a pickup gate and build some angled mounts for the bed mounted hardware.
     
  3. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

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    Where are you going to start the bend?

    It might be easier to cut the hole back end off (outer fender wise) and notch and bend on the work bench.

    While you are in there, it might be to your benefit to make a new floor with a box to mount a cell. Then you can bob the back off some while it's apart.

    Just some thoughts...

    Also, just as an after thought, when you are making a new floor, making a subframe system might be a good idea. Similar to what baddog did on his truggy...
     
  4. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    It is hard to stop. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    The cut was going to be at the base of the side and the angled part would be in the bed. The frame mount system would stay untouched. It would be frame wide at the narrowest in the rear, if it would go that far.

    I was going to get rid of the gate for good and go with a fuel cell. The inner fender wells would stay off for good.
     
  5. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    While you are in there, it might be to your benefit to make a new floor with a box to mount a cell. Then you can bob the back off some while it's apart.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would like to bob the rear. I will have to look at that ans see what the best approach might be.

    I thought that bobbing and then narrowing was the way to go but just narrowing it up will shorten it any way by several inches. This I learned on the front.

    Hmm. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  6. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I guess it depends on what kind of wheeling you do most, if you like rocks and don't care that it is sealed up, I would cut right at the floor where it meets the inner bedside and cut out the wheel tub, skin the bedside and bolt it to your cage. It gets trickier if you need it sealed up of course.
     
  7. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    While you are in there, it might be to your benefit to make a new floor with a box to mount a cell. Then you can bob the back off some while it's apart.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would like to bob the rear. I will have to look at that ans see what the best approach might be.

    I thought that bobbing and then narrowing was the way to go but just narrowing it up will shorten it any way by several inches. This I learned on the front.

    Hmm. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How much did you lose off of the front?

    If the inner fenderwells are going to be gone for good then here's my take, pull the bedsides off, cut the floor out, make a new subframe with uprights and then "skin" the bedsides back on . If you get the hankering to bob, it's only a few dzus fastners away /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  8. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    I do plan on doing snow and it might get messy here and there. I thought about skinning it out but have not decided yet.

    I plan on leaving the rear area open more with a softtop type of rear bulkhead that would snap on the cage to enclose it. My neighbor builds stuff like that and would give me a deal.
     
  9. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    How much did you lose off of the front?


    [/ QUOTE ]

    Hard to say yet. I'll have to measure an uncut truck. I moved the lower mounts all the way back in the holes and supported the core with 1/2 rod and pulled it back in to the point that the electric fans are getting close. I also dropped the nose down an 1". The bottom bolt on the fender goes right in and I had to groove the behind the door mount. The top mounts had to be cut away.

    The biggest gap is about an 1" half way up the fender with the door on. Cant tell with the door off. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I also lost the cowl piece. The hood now comes close to the wipers anyway.
     
  10. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Ahh, I misunderstood. I thought you were taking about a single "V" in the center and pulling it in. This makes more sense.

    Also, I didn't realize you were willing to ditch the inner fender and the "sealed" tub. In that case, I wouldn't bother going to all the trouble I described. You could easily just hang the bed sides (intact or skinned) from the roll cage with brackets/braces to the floor just to keep things lined up. MUCH easier.

    If you don't skin, you'll have more weight, but the bed sides are structurally sound and mounting is easy without the sides being floppy. A bit of extra weight in the back is not too bad since we almost always wind up with a weight bias on the nose when building a truggy. If you want to save another, oh, probably 90 lbs or so, you can skin it. But that usually winds up *looking* link a skin, with wrinkles and the "tin can" effect being common. You could also go for the middle ground like I did on my hood. Skin out the outer sheet metal, then build a light frame to help hold it’s shape and give stronger mounts.

    Another note on leaving out the rear inner fenders. Before BB03 I wouldn’t have thought twice about that, after all, I do rocks almost exclusively and I live in the desert. But that drive out of Upper Hell in the rain on a very cool windy night was absolutely MISERABLE with plumes of muddy water coming into the cab area from all 4 tires at various rates and speeds. I’m thinking seriously about making a few panels to eliminate those jets if/when I get into a spot like that again.
     
  11. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I also lost the cowl piece. The hood now comes close to the wipers anyway.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Same as mine except there is no room for wipers on mine now. The hood is within 0.5” of the windshield. MUCH better visibility. Your gonna love it!
     
  12. jac6695

    jac6695 1/2 ton status

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    chant/ S-10, S-10, S-10 /chant /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Sounds like you are having alot of fun. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    I like it! /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif
     
  13. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]


    Hard to say yet. I'll have to measure an uncut truck. I moved the lower mounts all the way back in the holes and supported the core with 1/2 rod and pulled it back in to the point that the electric fans are getting close. I also dropped the nose down an 1". The bottom bolt on the fender goes right in and I had to groove the behind the door mount. The top mounts had to be cut away.

    The biggest gap is about an 1" half way up the fender with the door on. Cant tell with the door off. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I also lost the cowl piece. The hood now comes close to the wipers anyway.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'll measure my 89 tonight so we can get some comparo #'s /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    As a side note, have you considered picking up an earlier model hood and grafting part of the cowl area into your hood? They have the sloped up area that lets the wipers slide underneath it. At least my 74 did /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Prb. more work than you want, but I figure that if you are pinching the truck down, then you are already down the "more work" road and just looking at mile markers now /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    On the back... SKIN IT!!!
    Cut you a drop in panel for the snowy/rainy/muddy days and run expanded metal the rest of the time, think of the visibility gains...
     
  14. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    After hearing that, I might put an smaller version of inner fender back in when its all over. I dont know how big the hole will be when I'm done. May not be too bad.

    I think for now, I will leave the bedsides unskinned. I can alway change my mind in the future.
     
  15. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    chant/ S-10, S-10, S-10 /chant /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Sounds like you are having alot of fun. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    I like it! /forums/images/graemlins/pimp1.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    I did consider it. I just like the look of the fullsize. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  16. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I cut Stephens entire Blazer apart. He used to refer to me as the "Sawzall slut" I took great pleasure cutting his K5 down.
    I took the bed sides off totally then skined them. I even took the door post off. The bedsides are spot welded at the door post and along the top lip in the bed. I drilled/chisled/cussed every spot weld at the door post and then cut the entire length of the side about 1/4" below the top of the bed side to remove the spot welds. The tail light is another issue and why stephens have the big upward cut at the back. It was just to hard to get the inner bed side and the outer to seperate in this area for me at that time. You can remove the entire bed sides and wheel tubs from a K5 with patience and a lot of blades. Once you have the bed floor as an open flat canvas then you can decide how much to taper and if you even want to keep the bed floor. Be warned Stephen is now putting a bed floor back in and sides to keep his kids better protected in the back. It is easy to do the taper. It is just very time consuming. Just remember measure 10 times and cut once.
    When we did all of this it became clear that a "sealed" bed would be very hard to achieve with only running skins. But the benifit of only running skins is that with a hammer and some blocks of wood you can make them look good from a distance. Be carful though and don't invest so much time and effort that you would be better off removing the body and building a truggy.
     
  17. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yeah, but after boatsiding, narrowing the front, narrowing the rear, trimming the fenders etc, might as well run an s-10 body... the rig wont have the "fullsize look" anyway... unless a windshield of a certain size is the only thing that makes a rig a fullsize...

    j
     
  18. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    My kids are getting older and it seems Stephan has the same thoughts as I do on this one. I would like to keep the floor intact, and sealed up and the sides basically there. I will keep the door posts as I plan on running stock doors for bad weather. Hope it will work out. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  19. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Believe me. I thought about it. It it a lot of work but I have just as much fun working on it as I do wheeling. So that part really isnt an issue.

    The S10 was tempting but not really needed for what I do. I wanted try try something that was not as common.
     
  20. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Along those same line. It might be easier to find a SWB truck bed. Then you don't have to cut it loose from the top and clean it up. Truck bed sides would give you a nice clean top at the front, and a rolled seam instead of a door jamb. Plus it unbolts from the floor with only a few small spot welds to deal with. Hmmm, or just use the truck bed sides, and cut the K5 sides loose from your floor. Narrow your K5 floor which already bolts to the frame nicely. Then shorten the SWB (or even LWB) sides to fit whatever you need. The SWB might even be the right length to fit the bed length with the taper. Just more options to consider...

    edit:
    I now see that you want to keep the door posts, so scrap my suggestion.
     

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