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need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH EM!

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by MudNurI, Apr 30, 2003.

  1. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    I'll try to make this as short as I can- give the circumstances- this will be a very general- vague dialog of what's happening.

    A village has a PD....PD has lately been heard on the scanner running plate after plate after plate......and what I mean by this is every 2 minutes- a new plate is being run by the same officer.

    Sunday night- a person's license was verified- person was NOT driving a vehicle but was standing in a parking lot- not near any vehicle that the PD knows is theirs...scanner call went like this

    M**** ( I wont use their numbers) to dispatch-

    Go ahead M****

    M****- Verification of drivers license - subject "John Doe".

    D---- DOB?

    M****- unknown

    D-- SSN?

    M**** unknown

    D- Address?

    M****- unknown- however if memory serves correctly- subject recently was charged with DWI from the State-

    D- Subjects license valid till Apr 06

    M***- 10-4

    -- heres the kicker- this person did not ever have a DWI- the case went to court- and he was found guilty of C&N, lost his license in JANUARY for 30 days...

    Senario #2

    John Doe in above mention- has almost the identical truck to our Dmax- difference is we have the CC he has the EC..

    Last night- John was driving our dmax into our village- rounded a corner- and all of a sudden- out of NOWHERE there is a cruiser behind him- going so fast when it caught up to him- the front end just bout hit the ground due to the brakes being slammed on........no lights- he was not pulled over- but the cop was so close to our rear end- his grill was not visible in either of the 3 mirrors on our truck.

    I go down to the PD- driving my Grand Am

    Speak to the officer- here is the DIRECT wording-

    "Is there a reason you were going so fast coming back into the village"

    PO- "I didnt know it was your truck"

    me- "what truck?......."

    PO- "umm...what I mean is - I had a meeting to go to"

    me- "how did you find out it was my truck? did you run my plate?"

    PO- "uh..yeah."

    me "and what probable cause did you have for running my plate? was I speeding? exactly what did I do?"

    PO- "obviously you did nothing- or I would have pulled you over."

    basically this cop ran my plate without any probable cause. Both my dmax and this john doe's truck are the same color- have plates from the same state and have a Gold' Gym license plate on the front........

    Tonight- I'm on my way home from T-ball- in my grand am- get home phone's ringing- friend of mine- "your plates were just run "....

    I call PD- ask them WHAT THE **** FOR..............no answer- just a inquiry...

    So my question to you- sir officers-

    CAN you run a plate for ABSOLUTELY no reason- just to run the damn thing......or must you have probable cause- and dont say crossing the yellow line is probable cause- in Vermont we dont have a "yellow line law"...they can NOT pull you over for that.....

    I'm gettin myself a hand held scanner tomorrow- and I'm going to be calling everyone I know whose plate gets run and then nothing else happens..... to me- it's not cool- I've been told by other officers- and also dispatchers in both this PD and others around here that they can NOT randomly run plates or do license verifications unless they have reason to....and a license verification you need to be driving a vehicle- not standing in front of a store you just came out.

    thanks guys and no I'm not bashin cops- just gotta figure this out before I really cause a stink

    Brandy
     
  2. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    [ QUOTE ]
    CAN you run a plate for ABSOLUTELY no reason- just to run the damn thing......or must you have probable cause- and dont say crossing the yellow line is probable cause- in Vermont we dont have a "yellow line law"...they can NOT pull you over for that.....

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, a plate is assigned to a vehicle, so there's cause right there to run it. If the plate is on the wrong vehicle......see what I'm getting at? Let's see what else I can come up with. Current registration with the correct address. Couple reasons I can think of right now.

    Is this a young guy that just got hired by chance, that's from out of town?
     
  3. The_Sandman_454

    The_Sandman_454 1/2 ton status

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    "BE CAREFUL" with a hand held scanner. I know here in Michigan you must be an Amateur Radio License holder *and* apply for a permit from the State Police to have one in your vehicle if I remember correctly. Possible fines, or what have you. Just be warned about having a scanner in your vehicle and check local laws before procuring/having one even in the vehicle, I don't think it needs to even be on to cause problems potentially... Good luck with your problem. And since I'm not a cop, I'll bow out here...
     
  4. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    [ QUOTE ]
    Well, a plate is assigned to a vehicle, so there's cause right there to run it. If the plate is on the wrong vehicle......see what I'm getting at? Let's see what else I can come up with. Current registration with the correct address. Couple reasons I can think of right now.

    Is this a young guy that just got hired by chance, that's from out of town?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I dont see where the probable cause of running my grand am's plate is- I was not speeding- my car is brand spankin freakin new- nothing was "wrong" with it to warrant a "fix it ticket"....

    What would lead you to believe the plate is on the wrong vehicle? You can't just asume it is? Again- it goes back to proable cause.

    If I'm driving down the road- how can they verify my correct address- they don't know it's me driving- they don't know anything other than the plate on the car.....

    Again- they cant just asume these things- they gotta have probable cause-

    and no this cops not new- the issue at hand here is we've had some "shaky" stuff happenin, and I have been very vocal about some stuff they normally take care of at my facility...which hasn't been happening lately.....

    I'm really stuck on this probable cause thing- 4th ammendments pretty clear.....

    Brandy
     
  5. MudNurI

    MudNurI 1/2 ton status

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    negative in Vermont - it was a recommendation from a few officers that lead me to pursue purchasing one.
     
  6. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    Well, there lays the problem. At least in CA, the plate technically belongs to the state. You are on state/city/county property operating a motor vehicle. It's in the cop's right to check to see if your vehicle is legal and since it's in public and in plain view, there is no expectation of privacy.
     
  7. jimmyjack

    jimmyjack 1/2 ton status

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    It's profiling, profiling I tell you!! Kind of like fishing, once in awhile you get lucky. Now my take on a cop pulling up on my rear like that........ I'd a slammed my brake pedal through the f'in floor board and let him pull his grill off of my rear bumper. His fault, "sorry, I thought I saw a deer going across the road". I had a cop tell me the same thing about people tailgating me years ago. "Hit the brakes and let them hit you" he said. Cop or not, noone has a right to drive up on another car like that unless it's NASCAR. Police, if anyone, have a responsibilty to drive in a safe and sane manner.
     
  8. MEPR

    MEPR 1/2 ton status

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    Well from a law stand point it is technically a search. But since it is in plain view the officer can "search it", but im perty shure he still has to have probable couse to do it. I can ask my law teacher tomarow in class.
     
  9. BLAZEN70

    BLAZEN70 Registered Member

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    I have a couple of cop friends here in CA,(neither one knows the other). A while back i asked each of them about running plates. They both said that they have to have probable cause because the action of running a plate is recorded on a computer, which in turn is monitored or checked by The Dept of Justice. It kinda makes sense, so they dont waste time looking for where all the "HOT CHICKS" live. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  10. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    here in Michigan you must be an Amateur Radio License holder *and* apply for a permit from the State Police to have one in your vehicle

    [/ QUOTE ]

    This is not so anywhere in the USA. The FCC is the only entity that governs the air waves. The air waves are free and can be monitored by anyone, through any means, any where they want. No license is needed to receive transmissions of any type on any frequency. This is a federal thing and no state, county or city can change that.
     
  11. Sandman

    Sandman 3/4 ton status Author

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    Sounds like they are gunning for this guy. There isnt much that can be done about it. Just have to keep noses clean and it will pass with time.

    The police here can run a plate if they wish. Very much like looking somebody's number up in the phonebook.
     
  12. Executioner

    Executioner 1/2 ton status

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    But they have, in Viginia you can't listen to Radar
    K,Ka ...ect. Even if you car is not in motion.
     
  13. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    I'd like to see them enforce this law. It would never make it through the court system. We have had a simular problem where I live. The city tried to shut down an FAA Federal Funded Airport by making a law against taking off and landing at said airport. Didn't hold up because the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) is the only entity that controls the airspace. It was very funny to watch police cars speeding down the runway chasing my friends who were taking off and leaving them in the dust. The city finaly gave up. We eventually closed the runway because of nuicance suits from the neighbors who built thier homes too close to the airport. But the city couldn't do it.
     
  14. daleearnhardt01

    daleearnhardt01 1/2 ton status

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    Right in Virginia your NOT allowed to have radar detectors.
     
  15. fright89

    fright89 1/2 ton status

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    what happens if you are caught with one?

    I thaught Mass sucked, wow
     
  16. landsmasher

    landsmasher 1/2 ton status

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    I just sent an Email to the FCC asking this question. Will post the reply as soon as I get it.
     
  17. 83ZZ502_Jimmy

    83ZZ502_Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Correct! No radar detectors. Police Scanners I believe are ok. The FCC does not allow you to Transmit with a license. Listening is ok.

    But on the radar detector thing, the deal is they can detect a radar detector, and they can pull you over, give a ticket (fine) and take the detector away from you.

    Just my .02,
    John
     
  18. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    A couple of answers for you. Probable cause is not required to run a plate. "Running a plate" usually entails two checks, first if it is a valid plate or if it is stolen. Secondly, the registration status. Whether or not the plate is up to date or expired as well as what vehicle it comes back registered to. Many other things can be determined from this check too. Does the plate come back expired but the tags show current? A common problem is people stealing other people's tags. Does the plate come back to a VW bug but it's on a Blazer? That might be a clue that the Blazer is stolen. Is the plate wanted for some broadcast of a crime elsewhere? Running a plate is not a search by any stretch of the imagination. The fourth amendment protects us from "unreasonable searches". When you decide to drive upon the roads of your state, you register your vehicle. If a law enforcement officer wants to check the status of your plate on your vehicle while they are behind you, there is no unreasonable search conducted as you are continuing on your way and not stopped. You are not inconvenienced, and many times you don't even know it's happening. And, as someone wrote, there is also no expectation of privacy while you are driving as far as your plate is concerned. The officer is checking on information provided to the state by you voluntarily as a prerequisite to driving on that states roadways. In some states anyone can go to DMV, pay a fee, and run a license plate for the registered owners information. It can be considered public records.

    Now, every agency has procedures outlined in their duty manuals. It is possible that an agency will tell their officers not to run a plate unless they have a reason as all DMV checks are logged. This is to prevent the misuse of information gathered by an officer. But, running plates of vehicles in public on the roads certainly isn't a misuse of those systems and are easily justified.

    Secondly, running license plates is simply good police work. Many officers drive around during their shifts running plate after plate. This is how stolen vehicles are recovered. If someone stole your rig, and they were driving down the road with no obvious signs that it was stolen, wouldn't you want the officer to run the plate and find out that the person behind the wheel wasn't the owner and recover your vehicle? A good officer also knows the areas where stolen vehicles are dumped, or areas known for being victimized. If an officer couldn't run plates at will, very few stolen vehicles would be recovered unless they were dumped and certainly few auto thieves would be caught in the act.

    Thirdly, a good officer who wants to find wanted criminals will commonly run a plate, and then ask dispatch to run the registered owner for warrants. This happens every day there is no legal requirement of probable cause to do this. This is a common way to find wanted persons as they are out and about absent running into them by pure chance. Once again, it isn't a search as it doesn't unreasonably impact the person who is being run. Even if the person has a scanner and is personally offended by hearing themselves run, it still doesn't even come close to a search. Officers also frequently are looking for people that they know have either committed a crime, or are known to be good crooks. Since so many vehicles are similar in appearance these days, officers frequently run plates to see if they are following the person they want to follow or watch. If you had information that a person was involved in a ring of truck thieves, dope dealing, etc., and they driving a white Toyota Corolla, imagine how many of them are out and about. The only way to tell if the Toyota you are looking for is the right one is to run the plate and confirm the registered owner, especially at night when you can't see the driver well.

    As far as radar detectors and scanners go, the laws vary from state to state. In many states a scanner is legal unless the police can prove that you are using it to facilitate a crime. Radar jammers are illegal in all states but radar detectors are legal in some places and illegal in others.

    For a good definition of what probable cause is, try these sites:

    http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/315/315lect06.htm
    http://dictionary.law.com/definition2.asp?selected=1618&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C

    While reading about probable cause, keep in mind that probable cause is what is required for a search. If it isn't a search, then probable cause isn't even relevant to the issue. Now, to detain someone, a different criteria is used. This is known as reasonable suspicion. Reasonable suspicion to detain requires three elements. 1. Activity out of the ordinary (suspicious) 2. Activity out of the ordinary (suspicious) and related to crime. 3. The person to be detained is related to the suspicious criminal activity out of the ordinary. So, where this comes into play is when an officer actually wants to make a stop. Probable cause does not have to exist to detain, only to arrest and search. If the above three criteria are met, an officer can stop and detain a person for a reasonable amount of time to find out whether further investigation results in probable cause for an arrest or search, or whether the person should be free to go. Again, having an officer run your plate, or your name, isn't a detention or search so reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause isn't required for either.
     
  19. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Re: need help from you that are law enforcement dudes- NOT A PLACE TO BASH

    Most officers are good people doing a tuff job. With that being said, they are people, and we all know some people let alittle power go to thier head and abuce that power. I don't know the rules and regulations, or if the PD you're talking about is following orders to do more random checks. Said officer could be just following orders, or he could be on a power trip. You may want to speak to the chief of police first, befor raising a big stink over this.
     
  20. Stickseler

    Stickseler 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Correct! No radar detectors. Police Scanners I believe are ok. The FCC does not allow you to Transmit with a license. Listening is ok.

    But on the radar detector thing, the deal is they can detect a radar detector, and they can pull you over, give a ticket (fine) and take the detector away from you.

    Just my .02,
    John

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Its called the FCC act of 1958 or somthing like that. The Government can't control what you listen to. Its up to them to encrypt if they dont want to be heard (digital trunking). They can and do regulate transmissions because it interfeers with other things. In Va they wont pop you on a visual on a radar detector. They have a thing in the car that detects the leakage from the detector (your transmitting) and shuts down there radar till your close enough then bang $ 250.00 + the speeding fine, ask me how I know /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     

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