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Need help on argument with *J@@per

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Moose, May 31, 2001.

  1. Moose

    Moose 1/2 ton status

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    Ok guys I need measurements from center of axle tube to ground and bottom of diff to ground on a 14bolt. I'm at work and can't measure mine so help me out.
     
  2. LittlePig

    LittlePig 1/2 ton status

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    With what size tires? That will make a huge difference.

    Email: xiaozhu@my-deja.com
    ICQ: 84108805
     
  3. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I got 16 1/2" and 8 3/4" respectively. Are you looking for the difference between the two measurments? If not then my actual tire diameter (currently) is 33 1/2"

    Rene

    <font color=red>If at first you don't succeed...skydiving ain't for you!</font color=red>
     
  4. Moose

    Moose 1/2 ton status

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    tRustyK5 thanks thats what I needed. We are arguing about diff clearence issue between a my K5 with a 14bolt and 36" swampers and his Model 20 and 35" swampers. I say I can lead him anywhere he want to go and he says my 14bolt hangs to low. I keep telling these J@@pers that the one with the biggest NADS WINS.
     
  5. fr8train

    fr8train 1/2 ton status

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    I think his Model 20 will grenade itself before your 14 bolt gets hung up. Its part of a Dinger/Crapler, its engineered to fail.
     
  6. Blazer1970

    Blazer1970 1/2 ton status

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    Model 20s were made by AMC. They were never used in any D/C product.

    Tim

    70 Blazer CST 4X4 350 SM465 NP205
    87 Burb 4X4 350
    01 GMC 2500HD 4X4 Duramax/Allison
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Don't forget that a 14 bolt can safely have 3/4" shaved off the bottom for more clearance...
    Model 20? BAWAHAHAHAHA.....LOSER![​IMG]

    Rene

    <font color=red>If at first you don't succeed...skydiving ain't for you!</font color=red>
     
  8. pcorssmit

    pcorssmit 1/2 ton status

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    The Heep will have better diff clearance.

    Pete

    '83 K5, 350 TBI (ex 6.2), 700R4, NP208, Dana 60/14 bolt, 4.56s, Detroits, 3" lift, 15-39.5x15 TSLs
    '97 Dodge 2500 4x4 CC LB Sport, Cummins 5 spd
     
  9. Ryeguy

    Ryeguy 1/2 ton status

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    The Model 20 came along long (and for the most part left the scene) before Jeep was bought by ChryCo, so IMHO it can't be called part of D/C.

    With one-piece axle shafts and some re-enforcing to the housing, it really isn't that bad of a diff. It gets such a bad rap 'cause of the 2-piece shafts in the CJ models (not in the full-size versions), and 'cause the housing tweaks easily. Still, for such a light vehicle, they often hold up just fine. If set up right, they are pro'ly 'bout the same as a Toyota diff or D44 diff or GM 10-bolt.

    The Model 20 will have more clearance, but the 14-bolt blows away everything 'cept a D70 or D80 for strength.

    --Rob
     
  10. EDdaTREE

    EDdaTREE 1/2 ton status

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    I still see a lot more heeps with Blazer drivetrains swapped in...hmmmm? Wonder why.

    "The mud is lovely, dark and deep, but I have U-joints to change before I sleep"
     
  11. Ryeguy

    Ryeguy 1/2 ton status

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    *grin* Don't go there.

    I see tons more Jeeps than Blazers (or Chevy products in general) on hard-core trails. Maybe that's why you see more Jeeps with swapped drivetrains - more people actually take 'em offroad.

    IMHO, a stock little Jeep drivetrain (D30/D35/D44/AMC20) is far stronger than a pair of 10bolts under a full-size Blazer, when the weight of the vehicles are considered. Hell, most 10-bolts are just 28-spline and the Jeep D30 & D35 axles are 27 spline, the D44 (available option size ~'87 for YJ's, XJ's, MJ's, and later TJ's) is 30. That alone speaks volumes. Then the new TJ front axle shafts are using full-size U-joints...then...

    FYI, I own/drive one of the most modified Jeep Comanche's you'll come across. It's at http://www.bc4x4.com/ryeguy. And I'm building a full-size Blazer that is even more modified.

    --Rob
     
  12. '73 K5

    '73 K5 1/2 ton status

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    Are you trying to get flamed or something? This is a Chevy board and you're saying how great Jeeps are. I don't understand.
    You can't even compare the two. Sure there are more Jeeps on trails, but look at what work went into getting them there. Look at the Jeeps you see on the hardcore trails: swapped out engine, tranny, t-case, and both axles. What about Chevy trucks? My Blazer for example already has a V8 and extra strong SM465 and NP205 that will never need swapped out. Make a couple of easy axle swaps and you have a 1-ton driveline without much trouble. And the K5 was never offered with a 4 cylinder. Also a pretty big collection of trannys and transfer cases from the Jeeps that fall apart with any extra horsepower or bigger tires. T150 and the T-case that was in the first year Wrangler comes to mind.
    The Jeep drivetrain is "far" stronger? No way. I had a Jeep with a Dana 30 and AMC 20 with 35's and also a Blazer with 10 bolt and 35's too. The "stock" AMC 20 with the 2 piece axles is a joke with 35's. And you can't just compare the spline count of axles. Why don't you take the ring gear size into comparison...the Dana 30 is like a baby. Or the size of the Ujoints in the axleshafts? FYI, my Jeep even had 1 piece Moser axles on the 20 and I had constant bearing and seal problems. The Dana 30 grenaded when I was driving down the street. Whereas the 10 bolt truck was fine.


    '73 K5
    Chevy good...Ford bad
     
  13. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    I guess this comes down to "built not bought"...after a certain point the body becomes the least important part of the truck. Highly modified Comanche...more like custom built 4x4 with a comanche body cuz it was lying arond. Lots of our K5's get that far built too, and as for seeing them actually wheeled look no further than some of the guys on this site.
    I agree with klunky, the drivetrains available and built by GM and Jeep do not compare. Look at the 'majority' of hardcore wheelin rigs out there, not just your back yard. The vast majority of them run Chev drivetrains, motors, tranny's, T-cases, and definitely Chev axles. Model 20's suck...even in a Jeep they suck. I've seen 3 of em grenade the carrier never mind the axle shaft problem they are so famous for. Dana 30's and 35's...sorry they suck too. With a carrier the size of a small grapefruit and strength to match.

    Enjoy your Comanche...and yer Blazer. Just don't come here and extoll the virtues of a brand mostly recognized for running chevy parts!

    Rene

    <font color=red>If at first you don't succeed...skydiving ain't for you!</font color=red>
     
  14. muddin4fun

    muddin4fun 3/4 ton status

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    Ya! What tRusty said [​IMG].



    <font color=orange>hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?</font color=orange>


    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://k5chevyblazer.homestead.com/home.html>http://k5chevyblazer.homestead.com/home.html</A>
     
  15. Ryeguy

    Ryeguy 1/2 ton status

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    *sigh*

    Some people.

    Let's see here.
    Depending on the years, Jeeps could be had with D44 rear axles, D44 front diff's (in the full-size, just like the Chevy's), AMC 20's. And for trans's & T-cases, D20's (wow, same trans in the small Jeep as in a full-size Chevy - early 70's), T-18's, T-19's (as good any SM465). *yawn* The list goes on.

    Your comment about swapping in 1-ton diff's "without much trouble". Well, guess what, you're swapping stuff just like you're complaining about Jeep owners doing. Scout D44's swap in very easily under any '7 or YJ.

    Now, let's look at weak parts. Sure, the T150 and NP207 are weak. But so are the original Blazer 3-spds. But what about early TH700R4's? Or did you forget about those with a selective memory? 4-cylinders? Granted, but if memory serves, the 6.2L diesel was rated for about the same HP as the Jeep 4cyl gas motor. And the old 6-cylinder was underpowered for such a heavy rig.

    Now, let's look at axles. The GM 10-bolt 28 spline is a joke. They snap left right and center, just like AMC 20's and D30's. The difference is, the 20's and 30's are under vehicles that are roughly half the weight. And 20's can be had with single-piece axle shafts. Think about it...will a 27 spline axle live longer under a 3000# Jeep than a 28 spline axle under a 6000# Blazer? I think so. Then the D44's (factory option for most every Jeep) were 30-spline. Sorry, the 30-spline D44 shafts are stronger than the 38-spline 10-bolts. Why do you think 10-bolts are swapped out for factory D44's in the Chevy's.

    Same goes for ring gear size. D30 is 7", D35 is 7.5", D44 is 8.5", 10 bolt is roughly 8.5". Sure the D30 is tiny compared to a 10-bolt but again, you're looking at a vehicle with half the weight.

    And FYI, the TJ D30 axle shafts use the "big" U-joints, just like your front factory 10-bolt. So let's see here, the 10-bolt uses same size U-joint, one more spline (27 to 28) so slightly larger, and a ring gear that is roughly 20% larger...and you expect it to live as long under a vehicle that weighs twice and has more hp and torque under the hood as much, as the D30 under a TJ? Man, I'd like to know what you're smokin. :-) Sure I'm being selective here, but other than the size of the U-joint, the TJ shaft is the same as any other YJ, XJ, MJ, ZJ, WJ front shaft. And that's an easier swap to older trucks than any of your factory-to-factory GM axle swaps. Believe me, 'cause I've done both.

    Now, let's look at my Blazer project. To get it to good strength, so its drivetrain will actually live longer than my Comanche drivetrain under same conditions, I have:
    - swapped to a big block (replaces dead TBI 350)
    - swapped to a TH400 (replaces TH700R4)
    - swapped to NP203/NP205 dual T-case (using F*rd stuff) (replaces NP208)
    - swapped out the 10-bolts for ... well ... D60 and C14bolt aren't big enough ... they break as common as my D44 stuff under my Comanche ... so I'm going to ... well let's just say the axles are "significantly stronger" than anything under a domestic pickup. Can you say Unimog? I knew you could.

    My point (and there is one).
    Brand loyalty is stupid. Don't try to pick apart Jeeps when you're being selective about what years to compare the best against the worst, and how some people have built them 'cause I (and others) will do just the same for any Chevy product. I like the Chevy's, or I wouldn't have started building them. But just because it has a bowtie logo on the grill doesn't make it impervious. So face facts, both products have their strong and their weak years. I'm not knockin' the GM, but I have a problem when people aren't doing fair comparisons, which is what I see here.

    Bottom line, as another follow-up is, it's what you built, not what you bought (actually, the Comanche started bone stock, and it was a slow metamorphis to what it is now - it's still my daily ride).

    --Rob (knows of two local hills named "Chevy Eater" where stock 10-bolts love to spill their guts...but somehow for some inexplicable reason stock Jeeps with D30's, T150's, and AMC20's happily and repeatedly climb)
     
  16. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    You know this brand x vs brand y comes up every once in a while...Didya expect everyone to just roll over and bow to yer infinte Jeep wisdom? Delude yourself if you have to...

    Yes brand loyalty in a built 4x4 is kinda dumb...
    For every hill that eats a 10 bolt there is another that'll shame a Jeep, and a Chevy will crawl up. Its a wheelbase thing, and a driver thing. If one brand was the be-all and end-all best out there nobody would bother arguing or building anything else.

    As far as weight goes...its fun to pretend a Jeep wieghs 3000 lbs and also fun to assume my K5 wieghs 6000 lbs, however neither statement is true. I recently went wheeling with a friend in his nearly Stock YJ, for S&G we scaled the thing in its trail trim...tools, gas etc. and lo and behold a 4100 lb Jeep. Same scale but my Jimmy also in trail trim on much larger tires etc... 5300 lbs Thats with the 14 bolt and cast iron tranny and T-case, full interior, full tank of gas and all my tools and junk. Do you have any solid numbers for your comanche? I highly doubt it comes in at 3000 lbs either.

    If an argument is what you want we could go all day, both of us being selective and pointing out weak spots. If you want my sympathy for owning a Jeep you have it. I'm cursed with the same driveway infection. At least it makes a good grocery getter.

    Rene...[​IMG]

    <font color=red>If at first you don't succeed...skydiving ain't for you!</font color=red>
     
  17. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    DOE!!!

    Steve Fox for President, 2004.
    Jimi Hendrix was re-incarnated in 1990 as my....JIMI
     
  18. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Can someone go get Grimmy? And tell him to bring a water hose. This is going to get <font color=red>HOT</font color=red>

    Steve Fox for President, 2004.
    Jimi Hendrix was re-incarnated in 1990 as my....JIMI
     
  19. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Ok, tRusty... On the next round I want you to come out and go with the double left jab and then let'm have the big 14 bolt right and give'm the bow tie dotted eye.[​IMG][​IMG]

    Steve Fox for President, 2004.
    Jimi Hendrix was re-incarnated in 1990 as my....JIMI
     
  20. pcorssmit

    pcorssmit 1/2 ton status

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    I'm not even gonna touch the rest of the stuff here, but I hit 6000 easy. The truck empty, with the hardtop but no gear, gas, or people, weighs 5700. Switch to the soft top, add gas and two people, and your at 6000, easy. Apparantly I was a tad over my 6100 GVW last weekend w/6 people, gas, cooler, gear, and tools. Oops.

    Pete

    '83 K5, 350 TBI (ex 6.2), 700R4, NP208, Dana 60/14 bolt, 4.56s, Detroits, 3" lift, 15-39.5x15 TSLs
    '97 Dodge 2500 4x4 CC LB Sport, Cummins 5 spd
     

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