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need ideas re: lifts/tires/zerorates...

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by BranndonC, Feb 7, 2003.

  1. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    ok, what are zero rates, and what do they do?
    I have a 6 inch lift now, with blocks in rear and not sure about front. I wanna lower it to like 3-4 and put like 36/37's on there with my new setup. I have $2000 saved up for axles and an empty credit card with a $2000 limit that i don't wanna use... i already have bills. Anyway, heres my plans and can it be done easily...
    14 bolt,4.56 or 4.88, Disc brakes, Posi (or something similar for now)
    Lower from 6 inch lift to as low as i can easily (no troubles) i read that lower than 4 inches and there's no stearing arm or something like that....
    i have a 700r4 and np241 so the OD will help with my freeway speeds... so i think 4.88 will be better, and if i have enough i will get a d60, but what is needed with this?, here is a pic of what i hope it'll look like afterward.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. new2k5

    new2k5 1/2 ton status

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    ok first question why do yopu want to lower it? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif if you are going to run those tires with less lift you willl need to trim a good bit of fender. as for gears 4.88 would be best.

    zero rates are a combonation of a block and a add a leaf. they bolt to the leaf pack like add aleaves but dont increase spring rate. also they have offset holes so you can move the axels forwarod or backward 1" to 1.5"
     
  3. Lance

    Lance 1/2 ton status

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    Just pull out some bottom leaves in your current front spring pack. May not neccessarily lower it to 3" - 4" but the top main leaves on a 6" lift is somewhat longer, than a top main leaf on a stock or even 4" lift, which IMO is better. (Somebody correct me on this if I am wrong.) Or even better, just keep the top two main leaves from your current 6" lift and start experimenting with different spring packs (ie 52" GM rears) and mix and match until you get the height and ride you want. You will still need a raised steering arm, longer pitman arm or combination thereof, no matter what route you take

    For the rear use any type of shackle flip, either a homebrew unit or one of the many varieties manufactured and sold by members of this site. I personally went with a ORD/zero rate/57" Fords combo for the rear and I like this setup. These springs are soft and you may need a slightly longer shackle on the rears to level out the ride.

    Out west where you live, I'd go with the steepest gears I could with the 700r tranny. Over here a little wheel spin is a good thing, so you don't need quite as steep of gears. Buy a disc brake conversion from any member who is selling them, weld up the rear and you are ready to go and should still come in under the $2k mark.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Brandon,

    Sounds like you'll run out of money before you complete that list.....but if you're willing to use the CC as a "buffer" you can probably get everything done.

    A few thoughts:

    The 14BFF has a larger axle tube than the 10-Bolt, so you are actually going to get MORE lift on your truck by swapping it in.

    Are you doing a full 3/4-Ton swap (including 8-lug front)? I didn't see 8-Lug Wheels budgeted in there, and the front conversion parts are usually around $250-$300.

    A 14BFF can be bought for cheap, but once you start regearing it, and adding disc brakes (maybe some bearings & seals) it can get disturbingly expensive. Don't forget, if you don't plan to weld on your own perches, you'll either need to shim the axle, or there will be driveshaft vibrations.

    Cutting, Cutting, Cutting....You might be able to find someone to trade a 4" lift for 6" (not many people seem to go lower!) and fender cutting is basically FREE so this part of the swap should stay inside the budget. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif


    If it were me, I'd start with the lower suspension and cutting FIRST....start acquiring the axle parts afterwards. Then if the money runs out, at least the truck is still driveable while you save up for the rest of the stuff. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  5. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Stay with the 6" lift. Replace the blocks with either a set of lift springs for the rear, or use a combo of shackle flip and lift springs to get the desired lift.
     
  6. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    ok everyone, what are all the advantages of 6 inch lift vs 4?
     
  7. DieselDan

    DieselDan 1/2 ton status

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    You want a 4" lift, you've got a 6". Post it in the For Sale Section; I'll bet you have someone who will swap your lift in under 24 hours /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    You want a 4" lift, you've got a 6". Post it in the For Sale Section; I'll bet you have someone who will swap your lift in under 24 hours /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    our Oil-burning buddy has a point! I honestly would keep the 6" as it keeps the frame off obstacles and is pretty standard. What suspension do you plan to run?

    Ok, here we go with my suggestions:

    As others have pointed out: no wheels are budgeted. those will cost about $250 from summit for the cheap US WHeel #70's (i like them, standard looking steel wheel and tuff as hell)

    Going to the 1 ton, you can build in stages:

    14BFF Free- $250, deeeee-troit $300, hybrid u-joint ~$25, rewelded spring perches ~$100

    So you locked, loaded and bulletproof rearend is $675

    IIRC, you wanted a D60. Problems arrise there. a steering block (NECESSARY for a D60 with ANY lift) will run you $90 or so. The axles, $1,000 and up.

    With 37's and a 700R why not go with 5.13's? It will be less stress on the recipotating mass and your RPM's at 65 will be 2180 RPM's (assuming a 37" tire is a true 36") This will be right within the power band so that when you step on it, you will not go searching for gears. 4.88's would only save 110 RPM's but the crawl ratio benifit would FAR exceed the gas savings of 110 RPMs.

    Also, take it from someone that will have to go through the expense and hassle of regearing YET AGAIN!!
    Do 5.13's do it once, do it right.

    Ok, lecture mode off
     
  9. Blazinaire

    Blazinaire 1/2 ton status

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    Branndon: you are cordially invited to a wrenching party at Ducttape's house this sunday /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif. We are having a campout/BBQ/wheeling get together at his house on saturday night if you would like to join us then /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif. We can help you with the fender trimming /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif, leaf removal from the front pack, lose the dual shocks all around, and get rid of that goofy overcompensated bent draglink /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif! Let me know if you want to join us! /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  10. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    screw the hybrid joint, spend 15 on a new joint, and 15 on a new yoke welded on, that's how much it was for me anyway. . .
     
  11. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    As others have pointed out: no wheels are budgeted. those will cost about $250 from summit for the cheap US WHeel #70's (i like them, standard looking steel wheel and tuff as hell)

    [/ QUOTE ]
    I was thinking of the eagle 589 8 lugs that i can get for like 325 or 350 for 10 wide x 15 high from a shop in LA

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    14BFF Free- $250, deeeee-troit $300, hybrid u-joint ~$25, rewelded spring perches ~$100

    [/ QUOTE ]
    The same shop has empty 14 bolts laying around waiting for orders and what they do is put what ever gears you want in and everything is new that can be new. I planed on getting it from them with which ever gears i choose, and open or posi, because for the next couple years at most it is still my DD and i really don't want a detroit with my schools tiny parking lot /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.
    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    IIRC, you wanted a D60. Problems arrise there. a steering block (NECESSARY for a D60 with ANY lift) will run you $90 or so. The axles, $1,000 and up.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Yeah i do want a D60, but i'm gonna do it step by step and wanna get the rear great first, i like to do one thing right and have it cost more money better than getting the d60/14ff combo for 2k then throwing it in and re-gearing, and replacing everything later, i just wanna get the 14 FF in and built how i want it and then in a couple months get a d60/re-gear it and overhaul it, and get what ever else i need for it....
    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

    With 37's and a 700R why not go with 5.13's? It will be less stress on the recipotating mass and your RPM's at 65 will be 2180 RPM's (assuming a 37" tire is a true 36") This will be right within the power band so that when you step on it, you will not go searching for gears. 4.88's would only save 110 RPM's but the crawl ratio benifit would FAR exceed the gas savings of 110 RPMs.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    sounds good,

    Thanks for all the help you've always given me Zakk, you have probablly been the most informative person for me on this site so far! /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif And let me know what you think about my ideas! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    if you are rewelding the perches, why do you need to shim it? you don't- just weld them at a straight pinion angle.
     
  13. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    the detroit is nothing. I have one now (yeah!) and it is so hard to get them to "bark" i have to be doing fast u-turns to get it going. I have never heard that alleged "bang" of the locker loading and unloading. A posi is nice on the street, but in off-road sitations it might as well be open.

    IIRC, there was a baja 'Yota that was in 4WOR a while back that a guy build in his garage. even with a high speed desert rig, he spooled (or welded) the rear end. So for a heavy all purpose trail rig, i would give serious consideration to the deeeee-troit. Plus they are cheap!

    the 15x10 easgles are nice, but when going to a 3/4 or 1 ton set up, you need at least a 16" rim to fit over the calipers. I am not a pronent of grinding on calipers, and even less of one for a DD, so i think 16.5's are a good choice. Plus they have a bad rap. Rod and I were playing out deep in the rocks at Frank Raines with our tires at 16# and they worked fine and didn't slip off the bead.

    Any idea on what you are doing with the suspension? shackle flip? all spring?
     
  14. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    Any idea on what you are doing with the suspension? shackle flip? all spring?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    i don't know the advantages of either /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />


    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  15. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Brandon,

    Let's start over........ What do you want your truck to do, and what do you wish to accomplish???

    "If you don't know where you are going, you will never know if you get there....." In all seriousness.....can you verbalize what it is that you want? Why do you want the truck lower? What type of terrain are you trying to prepare for......

    Without some "focus"....the CK5 guys are going to run wild with ideas for you!!!!
     
  16. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    what i want is to have lower gears (1st concern) and be reliable for another year or 2 until i can get a new DD. But untill then i'll be doing pismo and what ever else i can find to play in. the 1 ton isn't necessary for me at all right now, but why do step by step by step and waste money that way when i can just do it right the first time. in all actuality, i could leave my truck just the way it is now for the next 2 years, but i relly want the gears now /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  17. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    hmmm... ya know, i was about to give the standard advice here but after thinking about it for awhile, Im starting to think that the best option might be to see if you can get a D60/ff14b under your rig with the $ you have. If you could do it, everything else is (by comparison) nickle/dime stuff that you can do as more $ comes in. If you spend the $2k on other mods... you're axles are still weeny... and you'll still need to save up yet another big lump of $ for the axles later on.... I went that road once, it sucked. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    If you could just get the 1-ton axles in there, even if the gear ratio wasnt exactly what you wanted... maybe you have conversion u-joints for a while... maybe your suspension isnt EXACTLY what you want...maybe your steering set up isnt rock-solid etc... but you can resolve those issues one at a time all the while being 1-ton.

    I think if I had to do it all over again, that would be the route i would have gone,

    just my 0.02

    j
     
  18. Mr.LaHoyaSunset

    Mr.LaHoyaSunset Registered Member

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    ive got a 3 in lift.... its relatively new, only about 15K on it.... wanna trade? ive got BFGoodrich 32in mudrunners on it? haa haa, anyway, ive been looking for a 6 in lift, where is yours from? and exactly what all needed changing to make it that tall, i want to do the same to mine, but am not quite sure what all needs to be done on it..... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif any advice would be greatly appreciated:) please email comments to quigley.35@osu.edu thanks a bunch
     
  19. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    ive got a 3 in lift.... its relatively new, only about 15K on it.... wanna trade?

    [/ QUOTE ]
    nahh, i might just keep the 6 inch, i have a few too many springs in each pack or something like that, so maybe i'll just take some out (with blazinaire's help of course /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif) and throw some 37's under there with trimming
     

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