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Need links for 4-link setup

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BowtieRed, May 13, 2003.

  1. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    I'm goint to put some anti-wrap bars on my axle and would like to eventually use a 4 link setup, so i need the4m to be strong, where can i get these links? i need about 36"-40" links with female threads about 3/8"-5/8" thanks
     
  2. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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  3. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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  4. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    i know ya'll have some! where'd ya get'm???
    thanks,
    red
     
  5. Blazinaire

    Blazinaire 1/2 ton status

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    What are you asking for here? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif A complete pre-fabricated link setup for your truck? Just some heim joints? Material to make the links? As far as I know, there are no pre-fab links that are actually setup for our trucks. As for the heims, we sell anything and everything that you could possibly want from 1/2'' to 1 1/4'' heims with left or right hand threads at my work and we also sell chromoly tubing to make the links. www.offroadwarehouse.com they probably aren't listed on the site, but there should be a # there.
     
  6. Blazinaire

    Blazinaire 1/2 ton status

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    one other thing, you reposted this 3 times in just over an hour.... give people some time, everybody isn't on here 24 hours a day to reply to other people's posts /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif. I generally will post and check back in a day or two unless it is something EXTREMELY urgent. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  7. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    sorry- the chromoly tubing was what i was wanting, not anything fabricated, thanks a lot, i'll ask about the tubing.
     
  8. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    what kind of wall thickness am i look for here?
     
  9. BAD4WD

    BAD4WD Registered Member

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  10. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    thank you, but i already knew about that place- i now just need to know what wall thickness to look for. in the 3 link article i believe he used 3/8" wall!! i can't find anything NEARLY that thick- and i recall one site saying 0.095" was the standard for a 4 link? any more help would be greatly appreciated
     
  11. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    0.095 for a 4 link?!! Maybe for mock up... Maybe in chromo for a small track car where the only loads are tension/compression. For a 4x4 0.250 would be absolute minimum for a jeep/sami type vehicle. For something like a K5, 0.375 on the bottom and 0.250 on the top would be acceptable. But you would still likely bend the bottoms if you run rocks. I'll probably build mine out of 0.375 with reinforcements in one of several varieties depending on what I settle on. Brook just bent his lowers on the first outing and welded a piece of 1/4 angle on the bottom to strengthen it. Anyway, check major steel suppliers, they can refer you to whoever sells DOM in your area, they can get 2" x 0.375 DOM which you can use to make the lower links.

    Lots of other options besides what 4WOR touched on, and still more problems/issues than options. What they gave you is just the tip of the iceburg, REALLY. Not to be harsh, but please do much more research before starting a 4 link. If you even thought that 0.095 was ok for links, you need to do much more research. This is absolutely not a "Just do this and you'll be fine" type of project.

    I've gotta say I agree with the people who think this article may not be so good. For some, it may help bring together the pieces. For others, most, I'm afraid it will lead to an "oh, this is so EASY" feeling and will result in bad, or even dangerous setups. <shrug> Maybe I’m just overly analytical, but I've been reading, thinking, searching, and researching link information (part time) for over 6 months now, and I still don't feel comfortable with the rear link system I have "in design". Peterson's has not changed that feeling. I could do everything they gave us within weeks of beginning to look at this. Does that give a clear indication of how I feel about it? In any case, I'm sure it doesn't matter anyway, so good luck, I hope I'm wrong...
     
  12. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    w3rd.
     
  13. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ...For some, it may help bring together the pieces. For others, most, I'm afraid it will lead to an "oh, this is so EASY" feeling and will result in bad, or even dangerous setups. <shrug>...

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Russ,

    I don't think it's all "doom and gloom"!!! Sure, the articles in 4W&OR may get people thinking that 4-link is cool, and may even get a few guys to bust out the graph paper (or SolidWorks! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif) to do some designing....BUT....there is one consideration that will probably save us from reporting on 1000's of new "Darwin Award" vicitms...... $$ COST $$ /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    I haven't even gotten that far along in my planning to fully understand what a complete front or rear 4-Link might cost...anyone want to throw in some numbers?:

    King Coil over shocks....(Qty 2) @ ~$1000 ea?
    Heim Joints (Rod Ends)....(Qty 8+) @ _______?
    DOM Tubing .250" wall or thicker (~20ft) @ _______/ft??
    Brackets...
    GR-8 Bolts...
    etc....


    Any ideas?? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    I think the cost factor alone will scare off 98% of the people who might otherwise be tempted to try building a 4-link.




    BTW -> I'm not sure if anyone noticed, but there is a new book out (about a 2 months ago) on 4x4 Suspension design. I already bought every other book I could find on suspension (Even that expensive Milliken & Milliken one! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif), but none of them addressed the specific demands of an offroad suspension. Anyway, I found it at Amazon.com a couple of days ago. There were no reviews on it, so I figured I would just take a chance and buy it. Maybe there are some "gems" in there to learn more??
     
  14. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]

    I think the cost factor alone will scare off 98% of the people who might otherwise be tempted to try building a 4-link.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    <font color="green"> What makes you think that Billy Bob and his cousin Bubba aren't going to come up with some fancy design using water pipe for the links and big eye bolts for the ends? There are plenty of shadetree mechanics out there that try to do everything as cheaply as possible. It will happen, I have to agree with Russ on this one. This article is like handing a pointy stick to a twitchy 7 year old on a waterbed. People that truly want to build a link suspension setup should be doing what you and Russ are doing - research like crazy and buy all the relevant books that you can get your hands on. </font>
     
  15. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]

    I think the cost factor alone will scare off 98% of the people who might otherwise be tempted to try building a 4-link.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    <font color="green"> What makes you think that Billy Bob and his cousin Bubba aren't going to come up with some fancy design using water pipe for the links and big eye bolts for the ends? There are plenty of shadetree mechanics out there that try to do everything as cheaply as possible. It will happen, I have to agree with Russ on this one. This article is like handing a pointy stick to a twitchy 7 year old on a waterbed. People that truly want to build a link suspension setup should be doing what you and Russ are doing - research like crazy and buy all the relevant books that you can get your hands on. </font>

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Shaggy,

    Darwin will still claim a few no matter HOW careful we are about withholding "dangerous" knowledge. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif
     
  16. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> It's not the people building them that I particularly care about, it's the other people that get killed when the waterpipe lets go at 70MPH on the interstate. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    I see both sides of it, on one hand the article will get people thinking about it and prompt them to do more research. On the other hand there will be other people that will think that by reading the one article they will know how to build the suspension and will end up killing someone with a faulty design. There are just some things that should be kept kind of hard to learn about, suspension design is one of them.

    The most important safety items on a vehicle are brakes, suspension, and steering when you're talking about driving down the street to get milk at the Stop-n-Rob. Brakes for obvious reasons, steering for obvious reasons as well, and suspension because that's what holds the dang wheels to the vehicle.

    Brakes are kind of hard to mess up, they either work or they don't, so that leaves suspension and steering.

    Suspension is still kind of a black art in the mainstream 4x4 world, at least linked suspensions are. I'm not talking about the guys on PBB or anything, I'm talking about the average guy, the other 99.9%. The vast majority still use some modiied version of how the factory set up the suspension, generally retaining a similar safety factor.

    Now look at how steering design has changed in the past few years. For example, 5 years ago how many trucks did you see that had been converted to crossover steering? Hardly any, but look at all the completely hacked, dangerous crossover setups are out there now that crossover steering has been made mainstream. Similarly hacked 4 links scare the bejeesus out of me.</font>
     
  17. BlazerGuy

    BlazerGuy 3/4 ton status

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    Greg, I have that suspension book and it's just past 4Wheel&amp;Offroad articles and reviews on lifts, shocks etc. I think the most techincal article/chapter is the one on spring rates. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  18. BowtieRed

    BowtieRed 1/2 ton status Author

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    whoah! I wasn't planning on starting this anytime soon first of all, and second of all me not know a wall thickness has NOTHING to do with my knowledge of physics and the physics of the 4 link setup. Believe it or not I am a fairly well educated kid. By no means do I know as much as you do about this, and I appreciate your emphasis on that- but just because I say I'm a redneck doesn't mean I a hillbilly who puts on a 12" body lift and some inner tubs and calls it a monster truck. I have worked out what I consider to be a decent design. I'll post it.
    [​IMG]

    that's what i was thinkin, i just needed some wall thickness numbers
     
  19. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    <font color="green"> What did you use to design that? I'm no suspension guru, but I can tell you that having all 4 links attached at the same plane on the same crossmember is not going to work very well. It might as well be a 2 link if you're going to do that. </font>
     
  20. zakk

    zakk 1/2 ton status

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    post it on Pirate in the General 4x4 section. if its as good as you think, you'll only get 2nd degree flame wounds. If it isn't, god go with you, cuz i won't.

    I think that is a good test. If you have enuff confidnece in your design to post it and let the Pirate tech guys go after it and your able to defend it. It might be good enuff to go with. If not, lemme know your commute so i can stay away.
     

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