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New doubler cross member

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by BadDog, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Well, I finally got my crossmember done. More clearance than stock, supports both adapters without having drive shaft clearance problems. Should provide better stability back there without the over stiff (IMO) designs that put the bushings out on the frame rails. This orientation should provide better "rocking" resistance than the stock narrow mount between the adapter and the "C" of the mount...

    There are new poly engine mounts to match.

    There is also an area for the transmission 2WD style mount (on the rear of the trans housing), but I didn't finish that. Frankly, I have lost interest and it's time to get this thing back on the trail...

    I also had thought about adding upper struts from the top of the 203 adapter to the 10 and 2 o'clock bell housing bolts. But I decided that wouldn't really help much since putting them in either tension OR compression would just increase stresses on the rear trans mounts.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    very nice BD. Still working on my design... trying to get every inch of clearance I can get. We'll see how it goes I guess. Pics, of course, to follow!

    j
     
  3. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Wanting to get more clearance, and not being able to settle on a design that would do it without making unacceptable sacrifices is one of the reasons it's been so long getting it done. I finally just decided to sacrifice an extra inch and do a simple and obvious implementation. This also lets me use my old skid plate with only minor mods.
     
  4. 81jimmyslt

    81jimmyslt 1/2 ton status

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    Looks good, nice and flat. I'm getting ready to do mine as well too.
     
  5. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    nice, do you have part numbers for those motor mounts? I may flatter you by copying you :)
     
  6. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Help yourself. Look on Summit. ENS-3-1106R looks like the right number.
     
  7. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Looks great. I'd like to see more close up pics. I may try and do my own as well copying the old 4x4Iron design, unless of course you would consider making me one......:whistle:
     
  8. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    That looks sweet!! Somehow I envisioned something different for the final outcome when I saw it in its raw form last week, but this is way cooler than what I thought it was going to be.
    So what ended up being the welder's major malfunction??
     
  9. PeteH

    PeteH 1/2 ton status

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    :waytogo: i like it!
     
  10. BranndonC

    BranndonC 3/4 ton status

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    i know its installed now, but do you have more pics? the little spacer you welded onto the rear of the mount to make up the difference in mounting hole mounts... did you have to put that on both sides? I assume you did, but just asking. What'd i'd like pics of specificaly are the poly mounts, how they mount and everything
     
  11. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    That top pic is about as clear as I can make it. I’ve got other pics, but they show the same basic thing, just less clear. PM me an email and I’ll send you a zip of everything I have if you like. I would post it, but I’m running out of room on my host…

    But in the first pic you can see the passenger side basically assembled with the mount in place. That top piece mounts to the too adapters, the mount is fully installed, and bolted to the cross member just like it is in the truck. Then you can see the driver's side tcase bracket flipped over upside-down right in front of it, with the mount cradle that fits inside the "C" of the mount sticking up. And you can see where the driver side mount sits on the left side of the cross member, where there is a 1/2" hole for the bolt.

    And yes, the spacer is on both sides, but one side is a bit more than the other. It could be that my frame is bent (you could say it gets beat on a little bit :o ) but one side was about 1/4" higher than the other. And the forward pads are not in the same plane as the ORD doubler adapter feet. They are about 1/4" higher and at about 3* different plane. I basically just made the angle iron brackets and bolted them to the doubler adapter. Then I took some drill bits and used them like measuring (Q/A type) pins to figure out how thick the forward pads needed to be and on what angle. So for instance (roughly based on memory), on the passenger side, a 1/4 drill might fit on the front, but a 5/16 fits on the back. So I cut a bit of 1/4 strap stock, and slipped a slip of 1/16 scrap stock under the back edge. When all was said and done, the fit was near perfect and I doubt there was a 1/64 gap anywhere. I was rather pleased with the fit...

    Then I added some fitted gussets (not much room) inside the angles behind where the bushing “wings” weld on so that it would not bend with the leverage (or at least it shouldn’t being my typical over-kill). Next, I bolted the brackets in place and fitted the “wings” with bushings where I wanted them and took careful measurements to locate the cross member bolt holes. That includes VERY accurate measurement between them, and also relative to the sides since it is several inches off center. The room between my link brackets is very tight on the drive shaft so the output had to be exactly center with no margin for error.

    Once I had the cross member itself welded up and checked for fit, I c-clamped it in position, with the tcase held where I want it using a porta-power (screw jack would work too) and bolted the mounts with their wings to the cross member with everything exactly where it needed to be when finished. Finally, I tacked the wings onto the angle iron brackets, disassembled one last time, and welded it up solid, being careful not to let it pull from welding (staggered alternating welds in a balanced patter WHILE tightly clamped AND tack welded to my table to make sure it didn’t shift).

    That’s about it. After some final bits-n-pieces and getting my limit straps finalized (adjustable) I’m finally ready to hit the trails again as long as I don’t run into more of the problems that have plagued me for the last year…
     
  12. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yeah I hear ya... the lure of the totally flat belly has prolly stranded more than a few guys in the "design phase" of a crossmember. I don't have a current skid plate to conform too... and I think with my bender I can make something that is flush at the frame rails and maybe hangs down an inch in the center of the rig. Not really a big deal there... driveshafts are going to be hanging down much lower anyway...

    j
     
  13. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Yeah, that type of design occurred to me too, but obviously I opted not to pursue it. There were several reasons.

    1) Tubing you can bend in a typical JD2 type bender will have trouble handling the beating that my truck takes. For one, round is weaker lb for lb when the force is constrained to act from a single orientation. In this case, the all significant force is always straight up and down, so square/rectangular is vastly stronger by weight/size. I used 1.5" x 0.188 square, which is well over twice (maybe more than 3 times?) as strong as 1.75 x 0.120 round when the force is aligned. I'll leave exact numbers to the engineers...

    2) Dipping down in the center is just more complexity, and creates tight clearances on the sides for things like exhaust. My final design was influenced by a desire to limit complexity while still providing what I wanted.

    Bottom line, gaining an inch of clearance for a few inches wide only at the frame rails (and that’s all I gave up) was just not worth the extra cuts, welds, and opportunities for warpage or scrapping the project due to a mistake in measure or calculation.

    And even if you don’t already have a skid plate, the passenger side clearing the front drive shaft AND remaining fully supported becomes much more difficult if you move up 1” above where my current plate sits. That’s also part of the desire to reuse the old plate without major mods. There is just not much way to fit it in more tightly without getting convoluted with outrigger supports going up and over the front drive shaft.
     
  14. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    yeppers. How much is your 205 clocked?

    j
     
  15. K10ANDYKHAMNIC

    K10ANDYKHAMNIC 1/2 ton status

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    anyone ever done an x member that goes over the top and the stuff "hangs "???Here is a pic of an x memeber I fabbed awhile back .It is not in use now as I have d-side t case and am using a stock 1 ton x member and the adapter i modified .

    P1010009SM.JPG
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2006
  16. yunit

    yunit 1/2 ton status

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    Looks great Russ!

    I see that you still have faith in the square tube driveshaft.
     
  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I wouldn't exactly say I've "got faith" in it, but it's what I have, and I don’t currently have budget for $1000 worth of shafts.

    But things have changed. The rear is now linked and there is almost no drive shaft length change when cycling. In the past, my broken stuff problems always happed right after bending a rear leaf while climbing something, and over all the drive shaft length changed quite a bit all the time. Add to that the fact I now have them greased (though I'll have to clean them regularly now) and I'm hoping for the best. I may still replace the front one since it does change length while the front axle moves, but like everything else in the last year, it's been "on hold"...
     
  18. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I have a "top mount doubler" in the buggy. It works well and I have had know problems with it. The mounting holes are just drilled in the top of the adapter and the crossmember goes over the top with three 1/2" bolts holding it up.

    Sorry that I don't have pics, and can't get pics as it takes about four hours of work to expose enough of the whole thing to give you and idea of how it works.

    I don't run any transmission mount and am using a poly motor mount system with only the doubler mount. The transmission just hangs out between the motor and 203.

    So far so good for three hard rolls and a front end impact that broke a wheel and ripped the steering arm off a D 60 knuckle.
     
  19. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Oh, missed that one. At one point I was looking as suspending mine, but didn't follow that path.

    Brandon, did you hard mount your doubler adapter? No bushing at all?
     
  20. K10ANDYKHAMNIC

    K10ANDYKHAMNIC 1/2 ton status

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    no one is giving opinions on my booty fab x member ?
     

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