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New engine break in tip

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Ned Kelly, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. Ned Kelly

    Ned Kelly 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Looks like you should get some zinc additive if your breaking in a new engine. Zinc is being removed from most oils now because it is not compatible with catalytic converters.

    http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/news/060316b.php

    http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp?ListHistoryID=288972762

    I also read that AC Delco has something called 'EOS oil fortifier' that also has zinc. However, I read the new formula has had the zinc removed - not sure if this is true or not.

    Some race motor oils still have zinc, especially those that say for use with flat tappet cams. Shell Rotella supposedly still has zinc.

    Or is this all hogwash? What do you guys think?

     
  2. AFUFO

    AFUFO 1/2 ton status

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    I heard all the nascar guys were blowing engines from the removal of zinc.. But im not much into nascar so im not aware of all the details.
     
  3. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    It is true, i've heard that diesel oil still has the needed properties. Any engine that has a roller cam is not affected though, only flat tappet cams.
     
  4. AFUFO

    AFUFO 1/2 ton status

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    For those of us who do not know... Does my 350TBI have roller or tappet?
    Thanks
     
  5. Ned Kelly

    Ned Kelly 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I also read that diesel oil can 'over clean' your engine and some gas engines experience a loss in compression due to the rings not sealing as well due to the 'over cleansing'. Not sure if this is fact or not. I've also read where some people have used diesel oil in gas engines with no ill effect.

    Supposedly 'Valvoline Synpower Oil Treatment' is another oil additive with zinc.
     
  6. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    None of the TBI truck engines up to 1995 ever had a factory roller cam.
     
  7. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I should have added that the critical time for this oil is initial start up on a new or rebuilt engine. Once you do the first oil change any oil will work fine. It is the initial break-in that this property is needed to eliminate cam lobe/lifter face wear.
     
  8. Ned Kelly

    Ned Kelly 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Scott,
    If I recall correctly, you are the resident engine rebuilder/guru.:bow:

    Soooooo....... is it just critical at break in period to have some zinc type oil? After that the current conventional API (non-zinc) is fine, and the zinc factor is really a non-issue? There is no need to use these additives in the long run?

    Thanks
     
  9. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    That would be correct on both counts. :thumb:
     
  10. Ned Kelly

    Ned Kelly 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Scott,
    Last question.......is it ok to use diesel engine oil in a gas engine? Any truth about it having too much detergents for a gas engine and it can over cleaning the cylinders and rings, leading to lowered compression?
     
  11. 4X4HIGH

    4X4HIGH 1 ton status Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Never heard of such a thing before. There are more detergents in diesel oil but that won't hurt anything. It will just keep your engine cleaner.
     
  12. superwrench

    superwrench Registered Member

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    I dont know for sure that all off the racing oils are effected by this. Some off road oils are exempt from this. Most oils distibutors have a phone # on the side of the case and you can call and get the msd sheets or they can tell you if the zinc has been removed. I have been useing Schaffers or Mega Power addetives to my breakin oils.
     
  13. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Diesel oils..

    Diesel rated oil is fine for gas engines too--providing the motor isn't full of sludge from using cheap or non detergent oils for thousands of miles..the diesel oil has much more detergent than oils used in gas engines,but if the engine is clean to start with,it will stay cleaner and last longer with diesel rated oil--its actually overkill for a gas engine,but more protection is always better,IMO..only time I'd say NOT to use it would be if the motor is sludged up--the diesel oil would loosen it and send it through the bearings,etc..

    I don't know about the zinc making a motor "break in" better or protecting better--I think STP oil treatment has zinc in it..

    ...I have known a few machine shop guys who insist customers use a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil in a freshly rebuilt engine for the first 1500 miles--they evidently believe the writing on the can that says "produces highly polished wear surfaces on newly rebuilt engine parts"...I'd say it does,most all the engines they rebuilt lasted a long time..

    I know the fleet mechanic at the gas company my dad worked at, installed "inverse oilers" used with Marvel Mystery oil ,that kept the upper cylinders lubed--none of the cars using them had any ring or valve troubles,despite many of them having 200K or more on them..I think the new "gasahol" fuel is responsible for accellerating engine wear,it acts as a solvent more than gasoline,and washes oil off the rings and pistons..:crazy:
     
  14. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    Dont really need oil with zinc in it for break in. Nor would i trust the small ammount of zinc in oils to break in a performance cam. All cam companies sell break in lube concentrate in 8oz-16oz bottles. You use it as an assembly lube then add to the oil and run it during the break in peroid . It is loaded with zinc. Just order it with your cam.
    GM also sell stuff called EOS (Engine oil supplement) assembly lube for breaking in cams. It is also loaded with zinc.
    IMHO should use plain straight 30 wt oil with cam breakin additive or EOS for break in .
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  15. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Today's CJ - 4 diesel oil has reduced zinc, phosphorus and sulfur too.. make sure you don't buy the 2007 oil by mistake.. pay attention to the labels on the bottle..

    the gibbs oil is your typical PAO / Ester blend oil, not different than some blends of mobil one, royal purple, amsoil, etc..an issue with PAO's is something called "limited additive solubility", which means its additives drop out of suspension more readily than additives would drop out of a group II conventional oil because they don't mix together very well. IMHO, you're spending 12 bucks a quart for a famous name..


    Zinc is an anti scuff additive, coming in to play only when you lose your boundary lubrication.. the zinc is the "last line" of defense when you have metal to metal contact.. it's possible to have a lubrication failure and still have a full crankcase, but you're only likely to see that if you visit your engines redline fairly often and keep it there, hence its inclusion in racing oils..

    I can see using the eos at break in time, but if you use it all the time, the additive may or may not mix with your base oil after its carrier oil sheared away, and who knows if you are getting enough anyway.. never mind the deposits that stuff will leave upon combustion..
     
  16. Ned Kelly

    Ned Kelly 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Thanks to everyone who replied. The information was very good. I'm just about to fire up a rebuilt Cad500 and glad I got this info before I started it up. I'll add some EOS or Comp Cams oil additive just to be safe - can't hurt.

    I'm very meticulous with my K30 454 oil changes (rblt in 1989 and only synthetic oil - after breaking in with conventional dino oil of course) and it is clean as a whistle inside (where'd that saying come from anyways?). Thanks to all the informative/intelligent replies guys.

    I have a case or two of diesel synthetic left over from when I did have a diesel. I did notice that on the containers it said suitable to use in HD gasoline applications. It didn't make sense why these oils would overclean a gas engine and cause loss of compression - I did question the truth of that statement I found on the net. It does make sense, as mentioned, that the higher detergent levels could dislodge crud and this would lead to problems. Now I feel ok about using the synthetic diesel oil on my 454 again.

    Thans again to all the excellent replies! I really appreciated the input.
     
  17. K5dreamer

    K5dreamer 1/2 ton status

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    i agree with those who said the lack of zinc in the oil is kind of a non issue, when rebuilding an engine, it is simple common sense to use break in lube on the cam and lifters, and some people even use it on the rod and main journals, so long as you have done that, you shouldnt have any problems. the key thing to remember is the propor break in procedure, which i hesitate to put up here as im not 100% sure of off the top of my head, but essecially it is something like....

    2500 rpm for 15 min or something,
    1500 rpm for 20 min,

    and then slow, easy driving for the first 500 miles.

    i would doubble check that, as its been a few years since i broke in a new motor.

    also after the 2500 and 1500 rpm breakin, you should change the oil and filter and put fresh oil in due to metal shavings from the breakin.
     
  18. Thunder

    Thunder 3/4 ton status

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    You should break in your engine exactly as your cam manufacture recomends. If The cam if it is a flat tappet (non Roller), It is the single most essential componet to break in properly. On a street engine.
    Modern rings and bearings with proper clearances dont reallY need breaking in. Other than taking it easy for the first few hundred miles. Before you put it to the wall.
    Course you could spend 700 clams for those new composit lifters and say "screw breaking it in" Light it up and take it to the track.
     
  19. roadnotca

    roadnotca 3/4 ton status

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    X2. Reads right off the instructions for a Goodwrench crate motor from GM.:D
     
  20. southernspeed

    southernspeed 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    After a recent engine blowup I had the oil anilysed. It was Kendell that I've used for over 20 yrs. They said that the anti wear additives such as calcium and magnesium (IIRC) had a count of 300 where as they would've expected a count of around 4000!
    I looked into this and found that as the addatives ultimately come out of the tail pipe, oil produced by America or marketed in America has these additives virtually removed to meet new emmisions standards.
    I don't use Kendell anymore!
     

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