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New ring and pinion setup....

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by ftn96, Feb 21, 2001.

  1. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Well, Im am on day 3 with my new ring and pinion setup that I did my self. The patterns that I pulled from the final setup looked good. I have always heard to listen for a howling noise after setup. The problem/ well the thing Im worried about is that I put my brand new 33" BFG M/T's on and they howl and rumble and roar, so I cant really tell if the R+P are howling. But as far as vibrations and everything, everything seems to be running smooth. Any input???

    Will work for beer, parts and tools.
    90 Jimi,350/700R4/241/10bolts/4.10's/33's/4"
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  2. Blazer_Boy

    Blazer_Boy 1/2 ton status

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    What were you running before? The 33's are no where as near as quite as the stock tires. I'm thinking though you might wanna check out your balancing and alignment. You could get a buddy in the back of the truck and get up to speed and he could probably hear where the noise is comming from.

    June 2001 - The Texas Sawz All masacre begins. Be afraid rust, be very afraid. [​IMG]
     
  3. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    I was running stock street tires before. Something like 255/75 R 15's or something like that. But I was just thinking that I may puthe old wheels and tires back on and drive around and see if I can hear anything. But these are my first set of mud tires so I wasn't sure what kind of noise or ride to expect, but all in all everything seems pretty smooth, other than the, what seems to be tire noise. But even that is not really noticable up until around 40 and higher. But my assumtion on the speed is also incorrect cause now my speed-o-meter is off. But I was just looking for some additional input.

    Will work for beer, parts and tools.
    90 Jimi,350/700R4/241/10bolts/4.10's/33's/4"
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  4. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Why not just jack it up and let it idle in gear? At least thats easy to try! If the noise is coming from the teeth, you might be able to hear it that way. Then again, maybe not with no load. Most of the time the howling gets worse as RPM's increase. I can see how this would be a problem with aggressive tires though. If you got a good pattern, I don't see where I would be concerned. I'm assuming you checked backlash and such?

    Dorian
    My K5 and Chev/Olds tech/links page: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html>http://www.dorianyeager.com/index2.html</A>
     
  5. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Yeah, I checked the pattern and it was with in the limits. And very close to perfect. The backlash I had to play by feel. I got a good feel for what .008 was and I did it by wiggling it back and forth. It is very close, but perfect????? Not sure, but the back lash would not cause a bad vibration or real loud noise though. I would get more clunk and play between coast and drive. Which I have but it is alot better than what the stock 3.43's were giving me. But I have no real noise other than what sounds like tire roar. But I may go back in ther and tighten that up a bit. But I did run it with it on jack stands and ran it up to 25, but with no load, like you said, not sure that thats going to be all that revealing. DONT get me wrong, it runs smooth as a babies ass, EXcept for at take off, it (the truck as a whole) feels ruff, then at 5 mph it clears up. But I did have a vib before the gear change at about 15-25 MPH, so Im thinking the gear change increased the speed of the driveshaft right? So the vib would happen sooner, thus at 5 mph. So I have deducted that I still have a very very slight driveline angle issue. I even went and put a load on it in 2WD on some weak logging trails and it steamed like a champ.
    Im just nervous cause it was my first gear setup. But from what I know, what I've been told, been taught and read off the net, it seems perfect.
    This is also my first Modified wheeler too. So Even though my title is addict, which I am, I will alwasy be a newbie. LOL!!!!!

    Im going to re-inspect everything real close when I change the fluid for the end of the break in period.



    Will work for beer, parts and tools.
    90 Jimi,350/700R4/241/10bolts/4.10's/33's/4"
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  6. Blazer_Boy

    Blazer_Boy 1/2 ton status

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    Try another set of tires and see what happens. Granted you RPMs will be real high with smaller tires but see what happens on a trip around the block.

    June 2001 - The Texas Sawz All masacre begins. Be afraid rust, be very afraid. [​IMG]
     
  7. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Ok, during setup, did you set the pinion depth? Here is how I set my gears up in my K5 last weekend. I removed the gears from the housing, I then cleaned everything well. I installed new axleshaft seals, I then checked the shims on the factory gears. I used close to the same number of shims on my pinion as the factory setup did. I also used a new pinion bearing which was opened up some so I could slide it on and off during pinion depth settings. I bought a pinion depth setting tool from Jegs. It measures the depth by first calculating the bearing centerline. Not all carrier caps are at perfect center so you have to determine this first. Using some dial calipers or micrometer, measure one of the carrier bearing races. Half of this measurement will be center of the axle, but for a true bearing centerline in relation to the checking surface (bearing cap surface), you will need to check the dimension from the deepest part of the carrier race surface in the housing to the bearing cap surface. After you determine where the bearing cap surface is in relation to the centerline, you can start checking pinion depth. If the number is more than half of the bearing race O.D. then you would subtract the difference from your depth measurement to get true centerline to pinion depth. Measure on both sides of the pinion to make sure your depth setting bar is square. If this bar is not square, you will have to shim it until it is square. You would then have to start over by checking the centerline to surface dimensionn to be accurate. (It happened to me) Take a measurement to the pinion surface machined on the face of the pinion. There should be a number etched onto the pinion. You should try to be within .002" of this measurement. When you get this set, you can now remove the yoke, install a new crush sleeve and seal, then lube the bearings and crush the sleeve until the correct pinion bearing preload is set. Use an inch/pounds gauge to test the pinion preload. Be sure to put some thread locker on the new pinion nut. Also, be sure to replace that bearing which had been opened up for easy installation. You should be very close to the checked depth even when installing a different bearing. I always re-check anyway. Next you would install the ring gear on the carrier and torque it down. Make sure you get a true torque reading. My bolts supplied by Drivetrain direct were too long and I did not notice them bottoming out in my ring gear. This would have caused catastrophic failure of my new ring and pinion. That reminds me, I need to call them and chew some @$$. Anyway, after installing your ring gear and fresh new bearings, you would then install the carrier into the housing. I measured the factory bushings from my 12 bolt and grabbed some shims from the install kits and divided them up for both sides of my carrier. If you use close to factory settings, you should be close for your first checking. Of course, you can sort of check backlash some before even putting marking compound on. I check the backlash, then when I feel its close, I then check the pattern. When you are happy with the pattern and backlash. Make sure to re-torque the bearing caps and install the rear cover. Fill with non-synthetic oil for break-in. Drive the vehicle 15-20 miles then let the gears completely cool. You can then drive it, but keep a watch on the fluid temp by stopping periodically and checking by feel the rear cover. Of course this is all for the GM corporate 12 and 10 bolt axles. My Dana 44 up front was much harder to setup than the GM axles, In my opinion. I like how GM allows for easy adjustments of backlash by just simply adding or removing shims. The Dana 44 required removing bearings to add and remove shims. Hope this is the way you did your swap. This is exactly how I was told by Randys Ring and Pinion and numerous other mechanics in which I consulted. Hope this helps...

    Mudzer 1978/91 K5
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  8. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    Hey Mudzer, I thought about you when I was doing mine.
    I didn't use a pinion depth guage. I did it the hard way. I used the pattern to give me the pinion depth. I talked to some people at Richmond and they said this would be acceptable. They said thats what is all comes down to anyway. It just takes more time.
    Its all put together and runnign fine as far as I can tell. ITs just that with new mud t's I can hear if its making any noise. But everything is smooth.

    I put in the shims that I had from the old pinion, then had the bearing pressed on, then I installed everything minus the crush sleeve and seal, then pulled a pattern, It was off to the toe. So I added some more shim then pulled another pattern. It was off to the heel. Then I subtracted some shim adn got it real close. My drive pattern is "little" off center from heel to toe, but not much and the pattern on the coast side is almost identical. SO my patterns are right. The only thing Im not real sure about is my backlash. The same as you on your post back a week ago. I didn't have a dial indicator, so I did it by feel. It is pretty close.I know that .008 is not much, but it says I can go + or - .004, so Im pretty sure Im at least .012 or better. But I would like to get it a little tighter. When its time to change the fluid, I will try to get the backlash a little closer using a dial.

    Will work for beer, parts and tools.
    90 Jimi,350/700R4/241/10bolts/4.10's/33's/4"
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  9. Executioner

    Executioner 1/2 ton status

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    Good post, looks like your a learnin !
    What about carrier bearing pre-load ?
     
  10. ftn96

    ftn96 1/2 ton status

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    I got it as tight as I could get it. I mean theres only so much space in there. I crammed as many shims as I could fit in there. But to be more honest, I had to put some muscles on the carrier to get it back out with each R and R. Had to use a good long screw driver actually. So if I had to pry it out, I think the carrier pre-load is pretty much on target.

    Will work for beer, parts and tools.
    90 Jimi,350/700R4/241/10bolts/4.10's/33's/4"
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