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"New vs Old" NP205 question

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by dyeager535, Jul 11, 2003.

  1. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    Ok, I purchased the later switch for the NP205 that indicates 4wd. Figured I'd retrofit it to the older case I have, so I could keep the 4wd light. (how did the older 205 trucks indicate 4wd??)

    Problem is, switch won't work right when installed in case (intermittent on/off indication) and it's not the switch, I've tested it outside the case, and it works correctly 100% of the time. I can adjust the switch depth in the case all I want, and with the spring and detent ball, either the light will always be on, or always off.

    Just wondering if any of you other 205 guys (or parts manual owners for say the 70's that can get the detent ball/spring part #'s so I can compare) know if the detent ball bearing or "preload" spring changed for the switch setup.

    Also guess I better make sure, there is only *one* screw-in "plug" on both the early and late 205 cases, correct? As the case is installed in the vehicle, the only screw in plug mine has is on top, on the passenger side shift rail. According to the (not so clear) parts diagram, one of the shift rails looks like it changed from the earlier ones, but I can't guarantee the parts manual is correct..it almost looks like its a slightly different angle of the same piece. In any case, it looks like the shift rail in question is the front wheel shift rail...which could also have been changed.

    If any of this makes sense, and you can offer any ideas/info/experience, please let me know. If you are unclear on my ramblings, let me know what I need to clarify. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  2. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    I've never seen an early truck that had a 4WD indicator light. When you yanked back on the shift lever, it was in 4Hi. Bump it forward a notch and it was in 2Hi. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif Anyone that couldn't tell they were in 4WD when in 4Lo probably shouldn't own a 4WD rig. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    My 205 came out of a 1980 1-ton truck. It has the switch, but I never bothered to hook it up, since my '75 K5 doesn't have a light for it to turn on and off. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif My '77 K5 had a 205, but no light in the dash.
     
  3. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    [ QUOTE ]
    Anyone that couldn't tell they were in 4WD when in 4Lo probably shouldn't own a 4WD rig.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    But what good is it having a lens in the dash for it that doesn't work? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif With my injection wiring, the two additional wires for that switch won't kill me.


    [ QUOTE ]
    My 205 came out of a 1980 1-ton truck. It has the switch, but I never bothered to hook it up, since my '75 K5 doesn't have a light for it to turn on and off.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Great! I'll trade you shift rails! Gie me your address I'll send you my older one. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

    Appreciate the reply to this. I've come to the conclusion that the shift rail is what changed. I can adjust the switch so that it indicates when it's in between gears, but at either end of the rails travel (the detents) there just isn't enough movement of the ball bearing.

    Already tried a lighter spring (thought maybe the original spring was coil binding, screwing with the plunger) but all that did was make it 10 times easier to shift. I may play around with that on my truck, I *might* be able to make the 208 shifter work with a lighter spring. The difference between having a detent spring and not, is the difference between using a hammer to shift gears (pound the rail in, use the claw to leverage it back out) to being able to use your fingers to move the rail. Play around with spring pressure, can probably make it so it's not TOO easy, but easier than it normally is.

    Only reason I can think the shifter is so hard to move is liability, if someone in a bench seat vehicle kicked the lever or something, and it was easy to move, it would be a little dangerous. Not much concern for that in a K5, especially if you had a 4wd indicator light.
     
  4. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    I would hate to have the TC go into N when hopping in the rough
     
  5. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    [ QUOTE ]
    I would hate to have the TC go into N when hopping in the rough

    [/ QUOTE ]

    A)if you have some detent pressure, it won't just slide out of gear.

    B)if using a 208 shifter(may be possible with less detent pressure), the pattern built into the shifter *should* prevent at least one direction of shift, although not locking it into one gear of course.

    I'll experiment with it first of course. It's not like I routinely put myself into situations where 4wd is the difference between life and death, so if my idea doesn't work reliably, 100% of the time, I'll be around to say so. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  6. 79Jimmy

    79Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    [ QUOTE ]
    Ok, I purchased the later switch for the NP205 that indicates 4wd. Figured I'd retrofit it to the older case I have, so I could keep the 4wd light. (how did the older 205 trucks indicate 4wd??)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They didn't, at least until 79 (my vintage). The 465/205 in my truck has no wiring provisions to indicate "4WD" but an indicating lens is present in the cluster. Only the 203 equiped trucks were wired to indicate "4WD" but the lens was universal to all the clusters 203 or 205. I'll bet that in 80 or 81 when the 205 was equipped almost exclusivley that it became "wired up". That's just my best guess, I could be wrong and in that case /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif

    James
     
  7. boz42

    boz42 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    i had an 80 model, 465/205 that had the light, wiring & all.
     
  8. dhdescender

    dhdescender 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    My '80 Case has the light hookup. Don't use it though. I' going to run triple stick, so I rekon I can find 4wd.
     
  9. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    I may have to try the lighter spring with the 205 shifter just to see if it makes ANY difference, but since it only affects one shift rail, I have a feeling the difference is minimal. It certainly didn't help with the 208 shifter.
     
  10. mike reeh

    mike reeh 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    Sweet. I love the idea of getting the 4WD light working. I had it working many moons ago in my truck and that orange glow cant be beat! i have a '77 np205 and there is no switch (pulled it from the original truck, sm465) but my other 77s with a 203 had the light.. Let me know if I can be of any help

    mike
     
  11. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    Well, I gotta tell ya, I think the only way I can resolve this is to get a switched version and non switched side by side. So far no part number differences, yet the switch simply doesn't work in the 70-something 'case I have.

    Something had to change, as this switch will NOT work with my setup. It obviously can be done, just have to figure out what else was changed on the case to make it work. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
     
  12. mike reeh

    mike reeh 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    I think I got a switched version and a non switched one sitting in my friends garage.. anything you need pics of? w/o tearing too deeply into the case..

    mike
     
  13. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    [ QUOTE ]
    anything you need pics of? w/o tearing too deeply into the case..

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I would appreciate it if you can just look the case over in relation to where the switch is, and see if the case is physically different in regards to where the switch screws in, and where the plug screws in on the non 4wd light 205.

    The easiest thing to do if you have two of them, side by side, is to check the switch with a multimeter. Note at which point(s) (shift position) you have continuity, and at which you don't, then move the switch over to the other case, and see if it works like the other setup. If it does, my spare 205 is just screwed up. However, if it too doesn't work, the below might help.

    I figured out my parts manual is "wrong", it doesn't list the detent ball/spring/plug for the "range" selecting shaft. However, the only location for the switch that makes sense is the shift rail that, as installed in the vehicle, is closest to the drivers side. Should be the front wheel shift shaft. (engages the front driveshaft) I could be wrong here, but kind of doubt the range selector is what they would use for the switch. If it's the "inner" shaft that your switch is on, I'm wrong. But with only two positions on the front wheel shift rail, that makes the most sense.

    If you can do all this, and see no difference, the only thing remaining is if somehow the shift rail itself is in a different location or something. If you can measure how far the ball moves when you remove the switch, and move the rail into 2wd and 4wd, that would indicate if there is a difference there. I used a dial caliper, since you can measure depth with it. If you could measure the ball bearing(s) that would be nice too. Can't see that making the difference (I tried the setup with a "spacer) but it wouldn't hurt to check. Switched setup is 5/16" supposedly.

    Really stumped as to why the switch isn't a drop in. The switch physically works, there is no adjustment to the switch, the detent ball moves enough to activate the switch, and the shift rails are the same part number.

    I'm just guessing at this point that the switch equipped 205 somehow moves the detent ball further up and down, whether it be by relocated shift shaft, or relocated detent ball.

    I know thats a lot to ask, but if you are willing to do it, that would be excellent. I'm really curious as to why this isn't a drop in modification. I'd try it on the 205 in my truck to make sure the spare 205 isn't just a "one-off", but when installed in the vehicle, without a stock electrical plug, you can't get the multimeter in there to test.
     
  14. Eric M.

    Eric M. 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    I'm rebuilding my 87 205 right now. Maybe this will help. On my case there is a threaded hole with a bolt, spring and ball above each shift rail. The bolt on one can be removed and the switch installed. I can't remember which rail it was (long or short .... passenger or drivers side) but can check it out if that would help. The difference is the shift rail that gets the switch has one shallow detent which will activate the switch when in 4wd. I just went through all this because the last guy to rebiuld the case put the switch in the wrong hole and the light never went on. Let me know if you need any more info. The case is 1/3 back together now, but going to work on it tomorrow .... maybe!

    Eric M.
     
  15. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    Thanks for the offer!

    I'd like to know which rail it is, and as installed, where the specific detent is on the rail. (towards rear of vehicle, or towards front)

    I have a feeling its the passenger side rail.

    So you are saying that the this detent in the rail is not present in the other rail, nor at the other end of the same rail? Since they use detent balls, they must all have detents, just the one deeper than the others?
     
  16. Eric M.

    Eric M. 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    It is the passenger rail. I already installed the rail, but as I remember, there are 3 detents and the center one is SHALLOWER, not deeper. When the ball is in that detent, it sits higher in the hole and depresses the plunger on the 4wd switch. I'll double check tomorrow to confirm if it's the center detent.

    The drivers side rail does not have the shallower detent.

    I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if there are detents at the other end of the rail. The rail only fits in one way. There are other groves on both rails which work together with the inner rods for shifting purposes.

    Let me know if you need any more info. I assembled the case today and will try to install it tomorrow.

    Eric M.
     
  17. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm not sure what you mean when you ask if there are detents at the other end of the rail.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well, I assumed (never having torn a 205 apart) that the shift rail had detents on either "end" of the rail, hence the detents when the rail is moved from front and rear.

    I'd appreciate it if you could make sure on that "3rd detent"...just going to have to compare it to the one I've got.
     
  18. Eric M.

    Eric M. 1/2 ton status

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    Re: \"New vs Old\" NP205 question

    Passenger rail has 3 detents and the center is the shallow one.

    Good Luck,

    Eric M.
     

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