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New way of doing a cross-over?

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by TopOff, Sep 11, 2002.

  1. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    I haven't REALLy looked at it yet... but was daydreamming here...

    What if you kept the 4wd box, go horizontally to the passenger side frame-rail, using a 90 degree (or whatever is needed) idler kind of arm,

    NOW Cross down to the factory axle location?

    Appropriate frame strengthening... etc.???

    Would this not be easier (cheaper) than machining new flat top knuckles?

    Comments suggestions... please.
     
  2. kennyw

    kennyw N9PHW Premium Member

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    Problem is the 4wd box only goes front to back. For any crossover you need to go side to side.

    So take your idea of crossing over to an idler and run back to a new custombracket off of the drivers side all you loose over the standard x-over is strength. By adding more joints and parts that can fail or wear out (more parts to hit on rocks?).
     
  3. kennyw

    kennyw N9PHW Premium Member

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    Or did you mean go to the pass side tie rod location from the steering box? I think the springs would interfere more if going to the tie rod.
     
  4. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    Kewl, but actually, I foresee, them staying AWAY from the rocks as the stock horizontal bar will be in stock location, but the UPPER one will be just under the frame.

    Hmmm....
     
  5. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    I guess I am just trying to weasel my way out of finding some flat-top knuckles and machining a passenger side steering arm... /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

    My way would create three long arms going in a Z pattern. More joints. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    The "regular" conversion uses only two bars.

    I was thinking of using an axle trailer bearing for the passenger side bar...

    THanks for the reply.
     
  6. Butch

    Butch 1/2 ton status

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    What about the oil pan when you cross to the passenger frame rail? It is a novel idea, but I think by the time you got all the idler arms in there you would have excessive slack in your steering.
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Stephen (ORD) has a cool multi link cross over setup with a sort of "idler" arm. Not like what your talking about, but you should look at some of his pictures...
     
  8. 55Willy

    55Willy 3/4 ton status

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    I had the same idea on using an idler arm but you still need a 2wd box. I posted it in the ORD forum and steve replied.


    steering post link
     
  9. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    That's what got me thinking...
     
  10. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    Here are some pics of Watson's steering system. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    [​IMG]

    And another...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. chulisohombre

    chulisohombre 1/2 ton status

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    looks like too much junk that i wouldnt want under my truck.how does it work with all those extra rods and joints.i would think that would be a little sloppy,but i dont know.have you guys ever seen the hummwv setup for steering.i think that is maybe the idea what he was talking about.it has a pitman going to the steering on the left side and a idler arm with a joint on the other side to turn the right side.the steering link is all one piece with four tie rods and an idler and pitman arm.works really well.the oil pan on a chevy might interfere with this kind of setup though.becaz the steering box sits forward more on the humvee to cleer the front diff and engine crossmember with the steering.
     
  12. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I dunno exactly how it feels but it doesn't seem to be a problem. I had the opportunity to watch it work on Upper Helldorado and I gotta say it seems to work very well and looks cool as he**. All those links moving and sliding around as the axle turns and articulates... Pretty sweet... I think the main goal was to sync the steering linkage with the track bar to eliminate most (if not all) bump steer...
     
  13. FLASHLIGHT76

    FLASHLIGHT76 1/2 ton status

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    I think it was "bullet proof" who has one that attaches to the pass knuckle at the tie rod location. Still has to use a 2wd box but its alot cheaper then the other units out there and you don't have to mess with the flat top thing. Just switch to a D60 and use one of those crossover kits. You'll be happier in the long run. /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif I know I would. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif
     
  14. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    called double cross over and was in the magasines in the mid/late 90s same issue as Ned Bacons SAS chev truck.

    my knuckles didnt require machining???
     
  15. TopOff

    TopOff 1/2 ton status

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    M_J

    Do you have more info on the "double-crossover"?

    You did a cross-over? Are you running a 60?

    I guess, I am trying avoid the money pit. Then when I DO find a D60, I am afraid I will have to do it all over again.
     
  16. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    not sure what info you want
    other then adding a few more wearing items it is the same as single crossover
    -------------
    sidebar:
    I have been wondering why no one seems to be using the theory on link suspensions to reduce bumpsteer.
    use the front to back steering box,
    with a draglink going back under the cab to a point equal to the suspension link mounting point,
    actuating the DCO pivot,
    which would have the second draglink running parallel and equal length to the suspension link,
    viola fairly bumpsteer free with a mechanical linkage
    :back on topic
    -----------

    you may be able to get a longer draglink using double cross over and you definitely would be able to get a shallower angle on the draglink by having the pivots down lower then the steering box.
    you could increase or decrease the steering ratio at the pivot as well.

    I dont see this as being cheaper then machining a knuckle.
    all I see is packaging and hard parts choices.
     
  17. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    mj, check out randy ellis's rock toy. steering box actually mounts under the seat to eliminate the joints and draglink parts. Also an old class 4 truck running BORE now built by john dyke using the same system but using a v-drive box to redirect the steering shaft to the box. From what I understand it was built in the mid to late 80's.
    It also ran front axle shafts cut from billet chromoly.
    There is very little new out there......
     
  18. Mudzer

    Mudzer 1/2 ton status Author

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    Watson has a seious case of Link-Itus. /forums/images/icons/grin.gif Slick setup.
     
  19. Stephen

    Stephen 1/2 ton status Moderator Vendor

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    Link-itus, Yup. My steering is WAY more complex than I wanted it to be but given the constraints I was working with (stock body, big tires, etc) there wasn't another way out. Maybe full hydro as brought up by Mr. Fox, but that's not for me yet. So, I have some extra pieces wiggling around in there now. And extra joints to wear out, and extra weight, and extra mounting points.......
     
  20. chulisohombre

    chulisohombre 1/2 ton status

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    trac bar,whats that?lol.sway bar whats that also.i just got tight springs so mine doesnt roll much around corners.
     

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