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No More C Clips on 10 & 12

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by Cmoe, Apr 2, 2000.

  1. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    Hey everyone just read a great artical in Four Wheeler May 2000 issue "Fully Shafted" page 124. It's about Warn's new full-floater Conversion

    C'moe

    <font color=black>the blazer is "Back in Black"
     
  2. OLDSTEEL

    OLDSTEEL 1/2 ton status

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    Did they mention what the added strength value will be?

    74 K5

    Leave it like you found it, or better!
     
  3. Cmoe

    Cmoe 1/2 ton status

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    It isn't going added strength value to the axle it self it is just doing away with the c-clip(weakest part) as the retainer for the axle. You would have bolts like the 14 bolt axle holding it

    C'moe

    <font color=black>the blazer is "Back in Black"
     
  4. DangerB

    DangerB 1/2 ton status

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    It has locking front/style hubs on the rear axle. Wheels ride on spindles instead of shaft. Its a cool article, I may just upgrade my current setup instead of getting 1 ton axles.

    DangerBrett[​IMG]
    <font color=blue>harder, faster, longer, stronger</font color=blue>
     
  5. shaggyk5

    shaggyk5 1/2 ton status

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    yes, but the hubs in back have a pin type screw thingy that prevents the hubs from coming unlocked ever.(unless the pin is removed. It also said that for a little extrs $$ you could opt for another type of cap that was not like the locking hub style. it was like the last photo of the article.

    shaggyk5

    aint nuthin in the world like a heavy chevy!!
     
  6. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    Locking hubs were never designed to be run in the rear of a rig. Think about it, you've got all these beefy axles, locker, etc, then you bolt on cast aluminum (innards) hubs!!! How long do you think they'll last?? If you're in doubt, try removing your rear driveshaft, lock in your front end, then accelerate rapidly on pavement and see what happens!! Blown locking hub for sure!!

    ken
     
  7. DangerB

    DangerB 1/2 ton status

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    I didnt like that locking hub thing either. The article says they have a solid hub option with disc brakes. Looks good. I am reading the article now if ya'll want to know anything specific.

    DangerBrett[​IMG]
    <font color=blue>I humbly apologize for everything I say in advance</font color=blue>
     
  8. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    I have been talking to Warn and Steve Watson at ORD for a couple of months about this kit and here's what my opinion is....
    First of all, the locking hubs are the same size as used on Dana 60's, and I believe they are also made heavier duty (I may be wrong on the heavier duty though), so I would say they should be strong enough. I'm pretty sure Warn did enough homework to not offer something that would blow up the first time somebody floored the gas. I have also seen alot more broken front axle shafts and u-joints in fullsize Chevy's then locking hubs.

    Secondly, the full floating design DOES add strength to the axle shaft or more correctly it takes away some of the force on the shaft. Besides the fact the shafts are chromoly, the full floating design puts less overall stress on the shaft because the only force is torsional. The standard c-clip style also makes the shaft carry the weight of the tire causing a bending force.

    Finally, it is a myth that the c-clip portion of the axle is the weak point (the point that will break). If you look at the setup of a c-clip axle, there is really no severe stress put on the actual c-clip. The flanged/pressed on bearing setup of something like a Dana 44 will break before a c-clip will. The only drawback of the c-clip is that if an axle breaks, there is nothing to retain the tire and brake drum. However, I have seen a couple of flanged Dana 44's lose a tire when the bearings fail.
     
  9. Depdog

    Depdog 1/2 ton status Author

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    The HUBS are Dana 60 1 Ton units

    The hubs are the larger ones off the Dana 60, they will take some abuse, or you can get the steel flanges that are a solid drive for a few more $$, that would be my choice.

    Depdog

    <font color=blue>"Lead, Follow, or BECOME the Trail"</font color=blue>
     
  10. OLDSTEEL

    OLDSTEEL 1/2 ton status

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    I have not bought the mag yet, so do they say about how much this upgrade will cost.

    74 K5

    Leave it like you found it, or better!
     
  11. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    The price, according to Warn and ORD, is around $700-$800.
     
  12. AZK5

    AZK5 1/2 ton status

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    Are the axles the same length on both sides? What diameter is the axle? What other spare parts would you have to carry? How long does it take to get a replacement axle? How much does a replacement axle cost? This kit does nothing for the fairly small 12 bolt ring and pinion or the axle tubes and housing. I think I'm going to go with a Dana 60 rear, it only hangs down about 5/8" further then a 12 bolt.
    CB
     
  13. Eagle86K5

    Eagle86K5 1/2 ton status

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    It sounds like a great idea, the price is a bit high, but I would like to see how it works in daily driving as well on some of the Blazers that get dailt abuse...

    <font color=green>Eagle86K5[​IMG]

    <font color=red>Only guy I know that can get out of line in a one car funeral
     
  14. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

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    Jim Allen, the guy that had the blazer done in the article, said that he had NO complaints about it. I sent him an e-mail a while back about it and he could do nothing but sing the praises. He did say though, that he hadn't had a chance to really hammer it on the hard stuff. Just light trails and things.

    Sounds like a good option to me, now if I can just sell that dang FF 14.....

    Kyle
    89K5
     
  15. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    You guys are REALLY contemplating spending upwards of $700 on upgrading a 10 or 12 bolt?!?!??! Dang, the FF 14 bolt with Detroit and Dana 60 front end only cost me $1000. So what, gotta switch to 8 lug wheels...sell your 6 luggers!!! And as for dragging a 14 bolt, I've heard of some people grinding away about an inch from the bottom of the housing, without weakening it. Surely that'll get it close to a Camaro (10 bolt) rear or a 12 bolt rear in terms of hanging down. And as for weight, SO WHAT??? These things already weigh over 5,000 lbs, what's and extra 100 or 2?!?!?!?!

    ken
     
  16. Depdog

    Depdog 1/2 ton status Author

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    Tell you what, if you sell me a 14 bolt full floater with Detroit and a Dana 60, both with 4.56 gears and for $1000.00 bucks, I will sell my current axles and tires and wheels and swap them in. Cant find a Dana 60 here for that kind of $$

    Depdog

    <font color=blue>"Lead, Follow, or BECOME the Trail"</font color=blue>
     
  17. Brian 89KBlazer

    Brian 89KBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    IMHO, this looks to be an awesome set-up. If it was only to carry my Blazer around, I'd go for it and beef my stock 10-bolts with the FF kit and enjoy the added strength and ground clearance. The downfall I see, if you plan to run a high HP engine or do any amount of heavy towing, would have to be the ring gear diameter. That's the only reason I plan to go with the 14-bolt FF/Dana 60 combo. I want to at least keep or exceed the factory tow rating of 6000lbs even with 36" tires and 4.56 gears.

    Food for thought?

    In regard to another comment made about trusting hub splines, have you looked at the amount of metal in the splines that engage inside the hub? It should definitely be as strong the shear strength of the few bolts that hold a 14-bolt hub in place, shouldn't it?

    Brian
    Back in search of the TBI KING!!
     
  18. ken

    ken 1/2 ton status

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    Not even close in terms of strength. On a 14 bolt, you've got 8 1/2" grade 8 bolts holding the flange to the hub. If you install locking hubs on a 10 or 12 bolt, even if you do get the Dana 60 version, the hub material is still an aluminum casting!!! ALUMINUM IS NOT AS STRONG AS STEEL!!! The only real way to make this conversion strong is to install Warn's drive flanges (which are steel). IMHO, I can't even imagine spending $700-$1000 upgrading a 10 bolt axle, even in a Blazer that will never tow, or only have 33" tires, when a 14 bolt is such a cheap, bulletproof alternative in stock form. Just my 2 cents.

    ken
     
  19. Kyle89K5

    Kyle89K5 1/2 ton status

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    Fair enough. I'm thinking very hard about the kit. My drawback is the amount of new stuff to get for the 3/4 conv. I've got a 14 and a 44 off a 3/4 ton sitting at the house but I will need to do more than just slap them in. Wheels, Tires, Rebuilds of the axles. I use mine for a lot of driving down the highway in addition to the trail work and the lighter stuff would be a better fit. When I compare the cost, they don't come out in the favor of the 14 anymore. To many things to change. It is a tough call, but this looks like the one for me. Trust me, I've got a qoute from Boyce sitting right in front of me to go along with the everything else. I can sell the stuff I've got, pay for the conversion and never miss a beat. The 14 is a good bulletproof axle, no, it's a great bulletproof axle just for my aplication it would be overkill .

    The kit is roughly $740. Still cheaper than the 14 from Boyce. and I don't have to change the front end of my truck any.

    Just My $0.02

    Kyle
    89K5
     
  20. 6.2Blazer

    6.2Blazer 1/2 ton status

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    As the saying goes "to each their own"......
    I don't think anyone is arguing that the 14-bolt is not the ultimate when it comes to strength, and even myself being a big fan of the 10 and 12 bolts, I will admit it. It's just that a 14-bolt is not for everyone and it does have some drawbacks.
    The ground clearance issue is the biggest concern I have as 2" more hanging down would mean going to 39 or 40" tires to keep the clearance I have now with 35's. As for grinding an inch off the bottom of the housing, maybe you can but I can't imagine that would leave much material. Anyone have first hand experience with doing this?
    For the weight, I know 200 lbs. doesn't sound like much compared to the total weight of a Blazer, but you have to remember that it is "unsprung" weight which will affect the ride and handling more than by just putting 200 lbs. in the rear cargo area, imagine slapping a 100 lb. tractor weight inside each of the rear tires. Why do you think race cars, and alot of regular street driven vehicles, use the lighter weight aluminum rims.
    For steel being stronger than aluminum, it depends on how you compare the two. Yes, for the exact same size piece, the steel one will be stronger. But increase the size of the aluminum piece and it will be just as strong or stronger than steel yet will still weight less. This is why aluminum rims are much thicker in the centersection than steel rims.
    For the locking hubs, I still don't see the problem with having them. Sure, steel drive flanges are stronger but I have never seen anyone blow even a Dana 44 hub (though I'm sure this happens), not to speak of a Dana 60 hub. Though I have seen the axle flange to hub bolts completely sheared off a Dana 70 (same setup as the 14), twice.
     

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