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Not 4x4 but I need the views and help big time!

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Itali83, Mar 9, 2003.

  1. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    Ok here it goes... I own an 86 oldsmobile cutlass supreme with the 307 v-8 and 4bbl E4MC carb on it and an auto. I drove the car from maine to nashville where i"m going to school. The car has a habbit of pinging when under a load and it's driving me nuts + it's not good for the motor. This is the list of what I've done to it to try and rectify the pinging.
    TPS was bad so that has been replaced.
    O2 sensor was dead so I replaced that
    MAP sensor was iffy so I changed that
    Full tune up including, rotor,cap, wires, plugs.
    Timing was set at factory spec and double checked many times.
    These are the things I've checked to make sure are working.
    EGR. It is operating properly and I can feel it open with my fingers. EGR passages are also not blocked because if I open the valve at idle, it will kill motor.
    I've put a snap on scan tool on it many times and there are no codes present, and all of the sensors look in check and nothing out of order. Temp sensor is reading correctly as well as the new TPS, MAP, and others.
    I put a dwell meter on the mixture control soleniod, and when in closed loop, it's varying between 30-40 degrees which is text book perfect, if I hit the gas quick, it goes down to 6 degrees, followed by almost 56 degrees and then back to 30-40 degrees.
    As for the pinging here are the symptons... driving around anywhere in 2nd gear or higher, any hill I come to it'll start pinging, or clacking I should say, but it's only at a certain throttle position, if I put my foot more into it it'll go away. If I put it in drive and power brake it without spinning the tires, it'll clack. I had my friend stick his head under the hood and it sounded like the clack was only coming from the drivers side bank, or it was definitly louder on that side.
    The only thing I'm thinking it can be is the computer is not taking control of timing (does not have vacuum advance). But if the computer is leaving the timing at the base (20degrees BTDC) I would think that it would run like a total piece of junk and probably clack a lot more than it does.
    I run regular gas in it, but I've also run two tanks of super with two bottles of 104+ octane boost with no change in clacking.
    I've pulled the plugs and they are white with no black oil or carbon on it. Clean burning plugs if you ask me.
    I'm totally stumped on what the F@ck is wrong with the car. I don't feel like burning any pistons up and I need this car for another 6 months and a 1300 mile road trip back to maine. I really want to have it stop pinging/clacking. If anyone has any ideas or ways to test stuff, or personal experiences or anything please help me out. Thank you very very much for reading it all and for the info. Thanks
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
    /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif

    Update. I've now used a timing light and found out that the computer is taking control of the timing, it's not stuck at base timing.

    Now I'm wondering if from the factory they had a problem with pinging, after enough were found with this problem, they sent out a service bulletin saying that the factory prom is know for this and they came out with a new prom to rectify it, and my car never got that prom. I'm going to do a cross reference on my Prom number to see if it's been superceeded for that reason.

    If anyone has more ideas, please let me hear them and thanks a bunch in advance!!!!
     
  2. jeffro

    jeffro 1/2 ton status

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    How's your timing chain?

    Could you have a lot of carbon build up on the noisy side?
     
  3. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    I have not checked the timing chain. With 205K on it, It could be worn. I'm betting that there is no carbon, or excessive carbon in the motor anymore becuase I've used that GM Top Engine cleaner which is known to be really good. I doubt that there is excessive carbon in the combustion chamber because when I pull my plugs, they are all clean as can be. White with no carbon deposits at all.
    I'll keep the timing chain in mind though. Thanks
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
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  4. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    Should have a knock sensor. Did you change that?
     
  5. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    This car actually doesn't have a knock sensor. Knock sensors came out on trucks first becuase they haul stuff and needed more timing control. So no knock sensor to be changed.

    The car more or less clacks than pings. IT almost sounds like it's coming from the middle of the motor, but then again, it sounds like it's right at #1 piston spark plug. I stuck my head under the hood with my buddy power braking it and listened for where it was coming from, and it sounds like all over really. I pulled a couple spark plugs to see it was just one piston making the noise and it isn't. There was no change while having one dead cylinder.

    It does it once the car is warmed up and not right when I start it up and start driving along. I'm still stuck /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    thanks
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
    /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  6. k20

    k20 3/4 ton status

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    rod knock maybe? my truck is like that once the engine warms up and the oil thins out a bit, just biding my time till the summer and a hopeful new engine.
     
  7. bablazer73

    bablazer73 1/2 ton status

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    just a thought. Olds engines were known for the rocker arm bridges wearing out and causing a clatter noise from that. I am not much of an olds guy, but do remember that was a problem.
     
  8. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    I'll look into the rocker arm issue. I'm hoping it's something stupid and easy, I just need to find it lol
    Thanks
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
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  9. Grim-Reaper

    Grim-Reaper 3/4 ton status Author

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    [ QUOTE ]

    The car more or less clacks than pings. IT almost sounds like it's coming from the middle of the motor, but then again, it sounds like it's right at #1 piston spark plug. I stuck my head under the hood with my buddy power braking it and listened for where it was coming from, and it sounds like all over really. I pulled a couple spark plugs to see it was just one piston making the noise and it isn't. There was no change while having one dead cylinder.

    It does it once the car is warmed up and not right when I start it up and start driving along. I'm still stuck /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
    thanks
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
    /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    If it's not the valve issue then it sounds lean. The reason it wouldn't do it cold is it will still be running rich due to the choke. I haven't ever messed with the CCC but it might be a problem with the mix solonoid. Another think....It didn't do this at home and now it does it. Maybe a elevation issue and it needs bigger jets? Cars with Carbs (and it's still basicly a carb) that were tuned to high altitude are lean when they come down to sea level.
     
  10. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Not 4x4 but I need the views and help big time! {update!!!}

    Thanks Grim. I'm betting it isn;t running lean becuase the car has an o2 sensor. I've hooked the o2 sensor (brand new) to a scope and it's reading right where it should be. Above and below 450mv. And by the dwell reading on the mixture control soleniod if it was running lean, it still has plenty of room to ritchen up.

    I got a new computer today because thats the last electronic piece left and it did not do anything. So now I'm believeing that something must be wrong mechanically. I don't know, I'm totally stumped and I'm considering selling it and washing my hands of it totally.
    Thanks again and keep it comign.
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
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  11. schmuck

    schmuck 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Not 4x4 but I need the views and help big time! {update!!!}

    i would say pull the valve covers and check for loose valve train componets, start it up with covers off and listen
     
  12. MJB774X

    MJB774X 1/2 ton status

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    whats the temp run at?
     
  13. Itali83

    Itali83 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Not 4x4 but I need the views and help big time! {update!!!}

    Yea it looks like I'm going to have to do some investigating for the internals. But then again, I need to decide how much effort it is worth becuase it is just a 307. I'm really looking into trying to get a 350 and drop it in it's place. But with no money, it probably won't happen /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
    As for the temp that it's running at, I hooked up a scan tool and it never read more than 198 degrees so it's not overheating.
    Thanks
    Ben 87 Jimmy + 89 Blazer
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