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now this is a HERO, I hope there is another to stand in her place

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by m j, Mar 17, 2003.

  1. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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  2. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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  3. Zeus33rd

    Zeus33rd Smarter than you GMOTM Winner

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    Right on mj.... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    What's sad is there are currently about 30 views of this post...and 1 reply. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  4. jc71355

    jc71355 1/2 ton status

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    That's (censored) up! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    Why would you do that to someone???? It's obvious he knew she was there! I guess not everyone has the same values that we have here /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  5. 84k5

    84k5 1/2 ton status

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    I think your sources are a little biased. Palestinians regularly send in suicide bombers so pointing the finger at one side is unfair.

    The reason the Isrealis knock down houses is because they belong to those plotting or involved in terrorist acts. It is very tragic that this has to happen...but considering the US allies itself with Isreal and against terrorism, I'm not sure 'hero' is the word I would use. My opinion only. /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif
     
  6. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Im not sure how its "clear" that the dulldozer operator "knew she was there". Ok, she was yelling "stop stop"... wasnt she doing that before she even fell? I mean, thats what she was doing there right? yelling? protesting? all that crap? how can we expect the operator to know the difference between a <protesting> "stop stop!" and a <fallen> "stop stop!"???

    at any rate, i really dont care for the palestinians that much. They support islamic jihad, hezbollah, hamas, and other groups like that. Its just my opinion, but I dont listen to groups grievences when their "solution" is to go blow up innocent people and kids. Martin Luther King Jr had grievences... so did Ghandi. Neither one would condone blowing up a bus load of kids, and neither do I.

    j

    ps: btw, before some idiot even attempts the "israelis have killed kids too damn it!" response. dont bother, the difference here is that the israeli army goes to GREAT lengths to attack/capture/kill _terrorist militants_... while the other side goes to GREAT lengths to kill as many innocent women and kids as possible. There is terrible collateral damage on both sides, but the moral difference between the groups methods looks pretty clear to me.
     
  7. tomseviltwin

    tomseviltwin 1/2 ton status

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    You never hear these "Activists" draping themselves around some terrorist idiot about to blow himself up killing indiscriminately. I wonder why? /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif Just imagine having a neighbor who is always trying to kill you and the police come out and say you just have to be "nice" to them. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    the genocide continues

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Give me a break. If the palastinians would lay down their arms, we could work for peace. The Isrealis would probably need to be forced to the table for sure, but if the Isreali's just put down thier arms, they would be repaid with death.
     
  8. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    lol, genocide continues... i missed that part. Some left wingers seem to forget that if the israelis wanted to liquidate the palestinians entirely they could.... and that if the palestinians held the same power over the jews that they WOULD.

    you can try to argue that all you want... you'll lose. the total destruction of israel is literally right in the mission statements of hamas, islamic jihad etc. they dont deny it... the only people that do are peacenik jew haters in the west.

    j
     
  9. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    [Forrest Gump voice]Stupid is as stupid does[/Forrest Gump voice]
     
  10. chevyracing

    chevyracing 1/2 ton status

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    I'm still trying to figure what heroic deed was done.
     
  11. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I'm still trying to figure what heroic deed was done.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    She sacrificed herself and her eggs so she would not further pollute the earth with her stupidity and the gene pool will be clearing up a little. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    Now, she did actually stand up for her beliefs which I respect no matter how wrong. At least she will no longer be supporting terrorists.
     
  12. chevyracing

    chevyracing 1/2 ton status

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    I thought so.

    John
     
  13. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    as a general principle "standing up for ones beliefs" is neither a good nor a bad thing. Whether its good or not depends entirely on the persons belief system. Ghandi stood up for his beliefs... but then again so did Adolf Hitler.

    imo it is unfortunate this chick died. At the same time, she was clearly a pawn of the more scary elements of the palestinian fringe. sad, very sad.

    j
     
  14. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    as a general principle "standing up for ones beliefs" is neither a good nor a bad thing. Whether its good or not depends entirely on the persons belief system. Ghandi stood up for his beliefs... but then again so did Adolf Hitler.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Apples and Oranges. Ghandi stated his beliefs and would lecture anyone who was willing to listen, Adolf forced his beliefs (by an means necessary) onto others. Don't try to compare the two.

    There is a saying, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything". It how you go about it that is either right or wrong (or grey). I may believe in things others don't, but I respect how they feel. If they try to push beliefs upon me that I don't believe in, then I will "push" back. Until that point, it's a "can't we all just get along" kinda vibe.
     
  15. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Apples and Oranges. Ghandi stated his beliefs and would lecture anyone who was willing to listen, Adolf forced his beliefs (by an means necessary) onto others. Don't try to compare the two.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    i guess you missed the part where i said "AS A GENERAL PRINCIPLE". the point is that you can't place a label like "good" or "commendable" on the mere idea of "standing up" for a belief system because both good/commendable imply a certain moral corectness. Since standing up for a belief system and being morally "right" are entirely unrelated issues, using words like good/commendable in that context make little sense.

    regardless of their means, both ghandhi and adolf stood up for what they believed in. Keep in mind that before he was a dictator, adolph was an literally an oppressed political prisoner... at that time he didnt have the power to "force" his beliefs on anyone... he was merely one guy "standing up" for what he believed in and he was thrown in jail for it. clearly once he got in power, it is a whole different ball game, but the complete absence of "commendable" morality in the man's views and his political power over others are unrelated matters.

    [ QUOTE ]
    There is a saying, "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything". It how you go about it that is either right or wrong (or grey).

    [/ QUOTE ]

    its how you go about it? wha?!!? so lemme get this straight, Nazism is morally RIGHT so long as you dont "go about it" the wrong way? Thats just silly. Regardless of whether you have taken action (yet) or not, there are some ideas that are morally indefensable... and they are wrong before you actually carry out the act. The idea of walking over to my neighbors house right now and killing him is wrong whether i go over and do it or not. Of course, actually doing it results in me going to jail... but it was wrong before I actually did it. Dont get me wrong in that Im not saying that its wrong to *think*... Im merely saying that as a moral issue, an idea can be wrong before it is carried out as an act.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I may believe in things others don't, but I respect how they feel.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    i guess we just disagree here. I dont respect how terrorists or nazis or stalinists or maoists or <insert other psychotic/murderous/hate-filled ideology here> "feel".

    [ QUOTE ]
    If they try to push beliefs upon me that I don't believe in, then I will "push" back. Until that point, it's a "can't we all just get along" kinda vibe.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    thats the problem, the cant-we-all-get-along thing only works in a world in which everyone wants peace. so long as there are the terrorists of the world, sitting on our hands repecting their feelings will only get us killed.

    j
     
  16. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    As for standing up for your beliefs being commendable....Hell yes.

    Now if your beliefs are messed up and you believe every Jew should die, then you have some serious psychological problems and need help, but that has NOTHING to do with whether or not you stand up for those beliefs. ie. [ QUOTE ]
    Nazism is morally RIGHT so long as you dont "go about it" the wrong way?

    [/ QUOTE ].
    I never said it was "morally right". If he believed those things, yet never carried them out, would there be any issues....NO! They would be six feet under and taken to HIS grave.....not thousands of others. Don't put words/thoughts into my mouth.
    Then here's the million dollar question: As much as I DON'T believe in what Hitler believed in....What makes his beliefs morally wrong? What is "morally wrong", and who decides it.......



    Carrying out those beliefs, that is when/where issues arrise. Then the whole "moral" debate comes into play. Then the question is what are morals and what is morality. Where is the list of morales that we should all live by....please let me know as I forgot to check that book out at the public library.

    [ QUOTE ]
    thats the problem, the cant-we-all-get-along thing only works in a world in which everyone wants peace. so long as there are the terrorists of the world, sitting on our hands repecting their feelings will only get us killed.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    First read what I wrote, think about it, and then read what you wrote, and think about it. If you do, we would be on common ground.

    Sitting on our butts will get us killed.....YES.
    The push me and I'll push back comment I made earlier comes to mind. I don't mean you have to literally push me, but opressive rule upon other human beings could be considered such. Logically I can draw a link because who is to say that oppression will be limited to others.



    Again, not wanting/needing to start an argument and a pissing contest of who's right and who's wrong. I basically only wanted to explain why I believed your statement comparing the two men was off base, not any of your other arguments necesarily.
     
  17. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Here's my version, Mike:

    "Re: now this is a MORON, I hope there is another to stand in her place"

    I guess she didn't fill out a Hazard Assessment. Alberta Safe Work legislation would have saved her life. Maybe I'll send a couple of copies to her friends so that they can avoid being hurt........ /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  18. SkulzNBonz

    SkulzNBonz 1/2 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Couldn't agree more /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    John
     
  19. ChevyCaGal

    ChevyCaGal 3/4 ton status

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    I agree, what a moron she was. The Israelis bulldoze houses of the families of Palestinian terrorists/suicide bombers. She was standing there trying to defend this.... yeah, what a hero.... there was a message being sent, kill Israelis and your families house goes. They got what the deserved and she was willing to die to defend murders and terrorists.... what a waste of a life....
     
  20. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    It's also one thing to be willing to die for your rights or rights of others (Heroish), it's another to not want to die (which I believe she did not), and end up being killed trying to stop a 30+ ton machine because you slipped.

    It's the same for the tree huggers who fall out of the trees and die. Ironic. The tree is coming down. If not now, later. There are other ways to get your point across.

    I applaud them for sticking by their beliefs, but the way they carry out those beliefs I don't. There are other (legal) ways to make changes. Yes, they are tougher and take longer to get. Shortcuts tend to get immediate results but non-lasting. Just look at what the environmentalist have been able to do as far as land closing to off-road vehicles.

    The environmentalists took the initiative and went through the proper channels to get changes made. Yes it sucks and everybody hates it, but who pushed back......alot of people never stood up for what they believed in and look where it got us.


    As far as the picture Goober posted. I do see some humor in it (I'm only human), but imagine that was your sister that died...
     

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