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np205 twin stick

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by jackedjimmy, May 18, 2002.

  1. jackedjimmy

    jackedjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    I was wondering if there are any companies out there that make a twin stick shifter for a np205........I know that ORD plans to but there is no set date on that.

    If there are'nt, are there instructions and a list of the materials neede to make one at home.
     
  2. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    ANALANCHE ENGINEERING HAS ONE FOR THE 205.
    IF YOU CHECK MY WEB PAGE I HAVE A PIC. OF ONE ON TOP OF MY WORK BENCH. I COULD ALSO E-MAIL SOME PICS. TO YA.
     
  3. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE SO I CAN SEND YOU SOME PICS.
     
  4. aksidentproan

    aksidentproan 1/2 ton status

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    What kind of modification is required to the shift rails and how much does the kit cost? I dont really need it for off roading just towing the trailer up a steep hill would be nice in low range but dont want to use 4wd.
     
  5. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    NO MOD NEEDED TO THE SHIFT RAIL TO INSTALL THE TWIN STICK. AS FAR AS PRICE YOU NEED TO CALL AVAL. ENG.
    IT MAY BE ON THEIR WEB PAGE.
     
  6. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Yes, you do need to modify the shift rails to have the desired options (the whole point of twin-stick). The only other way to do it is to remove the detent balls and that can cause trouble, allowing front low range with rear high range and such. The mods are simple (just a little grinding) and were covered in a Peterson's issue about 2 years ago. There was a scan of the article on the net but that site appears to be gone.
     
  7. jackedjimmy

    jackedjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    I called Avalanche engineering today an they said that they didn't have a twin stick shifter. I think that you are talkind bout the dual shifter for a t-case doubler.

    What i am looking for is a twin stick shifter for strictly the transfer case. If any one knows of one, let me know.

    I was at a 4X4 shop a few weeks ago and saw a twin stick for a dana 300. Is this adaptable or am I going to have to make my own.

    Let me know
     
  8. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    THAT IS WHERE I GOT MY SHIFTER FOR MY 700R4 TO 205. IT WAS A TWIN STICK FOR JUST A 205 IS WAS ABOUT 2 YEARS AGO. IF YOU WANT YOU CAN LOOK AT MY WEB PAGE AND SEE IT. I JUST PUT IT ON A BENCH AND TOOK A PIC. SO IF ANYONE WANTS TO THEY COULD MAKE THERE OWN. YOU COULD ALSO FAB ONE FROM A DANA 300 TWIN STICK.
     
  9. jackedjimmy

    jackedjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    how much was this shifter.......i looked at the pic and it looked like it would work.
    The only problem that i see is where to moun the pivot point.
    The pivot point for stock linkage is pretty close to the shift rails.
    Did you make custom rods?

    Do you think that they still make them.....i called today and thy said they don't have one.
     
  10. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Avalanche does not make this product!
     
  11. BILLY RAY

    BILLY RAY 1/2 ton status

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    I GUESS THEY DON'T MAKE THIS ANY MORE. THE PIC. YOU SEE IS WHAT CAME IN THE KIT. LOOKS LIKE YOU WILL NEED TO MAKE YOUR OWN. THIS CAN BE DONE FROM A DANA 300 TWIN STICK OR JUST FAB ONE FROM SCRATCH.
     
  12. jackedjimmy

    jackedjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    For the modifying of the shift rails....I realize that you have to remove the plate that is joining the two shift rails.

    After that.....what is it that I have to grind on the rails?

    I am kind of new to wheeling because i'm only 17 and I am doing a complete build up of an 81 jimmy,so if I am asking stupid questions, it's because I have little experiance.

    Also, If someone has a link to that peterson's article or even issue number, i would apreciate it.
     
  13. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    First the shift rails must be removed from the case. You will notice some notches ground into the sides of them. These notches need to be modified a bit to allow the options you need. Basically the notches are detents for the spring loaded detent balls to "snap" into when the rods are lined up properly, and they make sure “undesirable” combination don’t occur. However, some of those “undesirable” combinations work well for off-roaders who know what there doing. Things like rear 2WD low and/or front 2WD low for example. Some people simply remove the detent balls, then all options are available. However, that will force you to "hunt" for the right locations and make it too easy to get front and rear ranges (high/low) mismatched, likely resulting in broke drive train pieces. The detents are also necessary in the normal single stick config to make sure that the two rails driven by the see-saw “walk” back in the proper order. Again, no longer required with twin stick.

    I'm not sure where you can find the Peterson's article. The only place I knew of no longer has it. If nobody else can provide a link in the next few days, PM me and I'll dig out the mag and scan it in for you. It's not that hard to do but, if your really green, you might want to get a gear-head buddy with some experience doing more than just wrenching (preferably fab or machine work) to help.
     
  14. thebigdaddyof2

    thebigdaddyof2 1/2 ton status

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    I believe Summit is selling the Dana 300 twin stick and the boot....to boot.
     
  15. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    You are correct that it allows front wheel drive (whole purpose of doing the twin stick grinding shift rails), but actually grinding the rails does nothing to the detent balls and spring pockets (their purpose is to keep the t-case in a gear and keep it from popping out), but grinding the rails removes material on the shift rail to keep the blocker rods from preventing 2WD hi/low. By grinding it the way it shows, it allows the t-case to be put in 2WD hi/low, but prevents the front of the case from going into one gear range and the rear from going into the other that is done by the internal blocking rods (easiest seen when case is torn apart).
     
  16. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Actually, now that I think about it, I knew about the rods. Brain fart I guess. That's what I get for posting when I'm too tired to think clearly... /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    However, I have heard people say, "All you gotta do is remove the detent balls to do a twin stick. Only problem is it allows the invalid combinations." Never having been into a 205 (never broke one /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif ) I don't really have a thorough understanding of the inner workings. Is the "remove the detent balls" a load of BS? I've heard it from more than one (I thought) credible source so I had accepted it. If they actually only “keep it in gear” then, it seems, they were wrong. Please elaborate, I don’t want to repeat bad info…

    Twin-stick is on my todo list but haven’t got there yet. When I do it’ll be using the description in P4WOR.
     
  17. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    1st. I am the king of brain farts /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif and several times I have posted things that I should know better than to but I just blank out.

    2nd. The teeth on the clutch ring, the teeth on the portion of the high/low gears that the clutch ring engages, and the teeth on the shafts are straight cut (the gears and idlers themselves are angle cut). Without the detents (grooves in shift rails, springs, and balls) the case could jump out of gear, the detents keep the the forks in place. All that happens is the spring puts pressure on the ball which keeps the rail from moving forward/aft unless that force is overcome (you prying on the shifter) then the ball rides on the shaft until it hits the next pocket and the balls help you determine when you have reached a gear rather than halfway between one and the another. The blocker rods are what cause the rails to move in a specific sequence to keep both rods in Low and Nuetral and which allows one rod to move before the other when going into from N to 2Hi, 2Hi to 4Hi, 4Hi to 2Hi, and 2Hi to Nuetral and both rods to move together when going from N to 4Lo and 4Lo to N. I have taken several apart and rebuilt and on one just for kicks I put a junk one together without the detent balls and although it made it easier to shift it still wouldn't allow the bad combos.

    This is from MY "technical experience" with this case, and may be incorrect (so please correct me if I'm wrong, no flames /forums/images/icons/wink.gif), but I am willing to stand behind this statement 100% at this time.

    ****edit****

    If you want to try, all it takes is to pop the two covers (unscrew) that cover the spring and detent balls, remove the springs and balls (easiest with magnet) and try it with both axles off the ground. I have a feeling you will come to the same conclusion I did. Also if you leave the blocker rods out or modify the shift rails for twin stick, the single lever will no longer work correctly. With the modified twin stick rail and the single shifter, you still won't be able to get one Hi and one Low, but it will be tough to get the combo you want (except maybe 4Hi and 4 Lo as both rails are either full in or full out). With no blocker rods you are just asking for trouble regardless if the rails are modified or not.
     
  18. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Cool, thanks for the info. I'll no longer relate that piece of (apparently) bad info, unless someone replies with *facts* to the contrary. Your explanation seems well qualified. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif My apologies for posting bad info. I’ll be in the dog house (again) if you need me… /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

    When I do the twin stick (probably another month or more) I’ll definitely give the “detent ball removal theory” a whirl just for grins. I do know that, as you say, after the mods there is nothing to force the two rods to walk down in sync using only the single shifter and the see-saw bar.
     
  19. jackedjimmy

    jackedjimmy 1/2 ton status

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    If i didn't want to modify anything internaly of the t-case, and I was just to remove the bar joining the two shft rails and go with a twin stick........would I be able to get true 2lo.

    This is my main objective behind the twinstick setep besides the fact that it looks cool and would probably be easir than finding stock linkage in a bone yard and trying to refurbish it. I amconverting from a 208 to a 205, so the 208 linkage is worthles to me if anyone out there is interested in it.
     
  20. 70~K5

    70~K5 1/2 ton status

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    I want to do the twin stick so I can get front wheel drive low range.
     

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