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Odd 'no-start' this morning...

Discussion in '1982-Present GM Diesel' started by tRustyK5, Feb 3, 2004.

  1. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    Every morning I have to move my truck out of the way of my wife's POS (single driveway /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif)

    This morning I cycle the GP's ~10 seconds, give it about 1/4 throttle and turn the key to start...sure spins fast but it didn't start. /forums/images/graemlins/1zhelp.gif So, I cycled the GP's another 5 seconds and gave it 3/4 throttle...got a sniff but still no start. /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif It took about 7 tries and WOT before it started and stayed started.

    Once it was started it also sounded very different than normal. Hardly any clatter at all, but not running rough or anything... /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    Anyways, my first thought was that my AC60G's packed it in so I was going to test them when I got home from dropping my wife off. Of course I left my meter at my buddy's place /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif

    So, I figured I'd try and see if it would be hard to start again. I went through my regular start routine and she flashed up like normal, loud like usual (cold advance=more clatter)

    Injection pump is 6 months old, injectors also 6 months old, lift pump is less than a year old, no leaks, starter is maybe 3 months old, GP light comes on and I can here the relay click on when I hit the manual glow button. Could a malfunctioning cold advance cause a really bad hard start? Any other possibilities?

    Rene
     
  2. steelsoldiers

    steelsoldiers 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    [ QUOTE ]
    Could a malfunctioning cold advance cause a really bad hard start? Any other possibilities?

    Rene

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's a possibility Rene, but I ran mine with the HPCA and the fast idle disconnected for a couple of weeks because my temp switch was bad. I would have to keep my foot in it when it started or else it would die right after starting, but other than that, it would fire right up. Maybe your fuel cut off switch was stuck for a moment. Maybe your fuel gelled up or formed some parafin crystals over night which gummed up the works. Do you run treatment in your diesel?
     
  3. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    I went and looked at a 6.2 blazer the other day and it had the same exact prob. Glow plug light was on along with the relay clicking but didn't wan't to stay running until the 3rd try. I am very curious to what your prob is Rene because it was probably the same thing with this one I looked at. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  4. Can Can

    Can Can Pusher Man Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    I'm willing to bet that air is getting into the system somewhere, Rene. I had a similar hard start issue last summer and it ended up being a small pinhole in a rubber fuel line right beside a hose clamp. It was really wierd- I wouldn't lose any fuel out of the line but air would somehow get in and play havoc with my starts. I replaced the line and all was well again.
     
  5. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    [ QUOTE ]
    Maybe your fuel gelled up or formed some parafin crystals over night which gummed up the works. Do you run treatment in your diesel?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Not weather related, it was 35 F this morning. I do run fuel treatment too.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Maybe your fuel cut off switch was stuck for a moment.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Possible...WOT start and it wasn't smoky when it did start. Any way to test or confirm the fuel cut-off switch?

    I hate intermittant problems... /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif

    Rene
     
  6. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    [ QUOTE ]
    I went and looked at a 6.2 blazer the other day and it had the same exact prob. Glow plug light was on along with the relay clicking but didn't wan't to stay running until the 3rd try. I am very curious to what your prob is Rene because it was probably the same thing with this one I looked at. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    As soon as I can figure this out I'll post up...bet on it. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

    Rene
     
  7. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    I'll check the lines Paul, but even if I did have a pinhole it should have fired up normally and then died. It should also have sounded the same which it didn't. The cold advance was definitely not working when it did start, nor was the fast idle.

    The second time I started it an hour later the cold advance and the fast idle both were working fine.

    After sitting 5 1/2 hours I just went and tried it again and it started normally. That's about as long as it sits from when I get home after work (1:30 am) until I have to move it in the morning (6:30 am)

    Rene
     
  8. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    If it was a glow plug problem, it would have smoked really bad after finally starting, meaning the cylinders weren't hot enough to fire. You said not much smoke, so I don't think that was the problem. Plus, after cranking it over so much, the cylinders were extra warm.

    If it was an air leak, it would have started and ran rough for a little while, plus it would have surged some after finally starting. This doesn't sound quite like your symptoms either.

    A stuck fuel cut-off solenoid could have done it, as well as bad/gelled fuel?

    The lack of diesel clatter points to a non working HPCA too.

    I would look at either one of these possible areas, perhaps cleaning the connections on both wires going to the injection pump.

    Casey
     
  9. tRustyK5

    tRustyK5 Big meanie Staff Member Super Moderator GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    A quick look at the pump area and I see the pink wire which I assume is the fuel cut-off (any way to test this?) and two other wires both green. The one wire goes to a small solenoid by the throttle linkage itself. I'd say it's safe to assume that one takes care of the fast idle... /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

    The last wire goes to the passenger side of the pump...HPCA? Again, any way to test it?

    I'll clean the contacts with some emory paper and see if I have any continued problems...

    Rene
     
  10. arveetek

    arveetek 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    Yep, the pink wire is the fuel cut-off solenoid. You can use a test light to check that you're getting power to it when the ignition is on. You should be able to hear a slight "click" when you pull the wire off and on with the key on. The only other way to inspect the fuel cut-off is by removing the top of the pump and looking at the solenoid mounted on the cover. You may not want to do this if the pump is under warranty.

    The green wires are hooked together. One operates the HPCA on the side of the pump, the other goes to the fast idle solenoid. Again, you can use a test light to check for power with the key on and the engine cold.

    Casey
     
  11. BlueBlazer

    BlueBlazer 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Odd \'no-start\' this morning...

    I would agree that the HPCA is probably the culprit and yes, you do need that extra timing advance for good starting when its cold out. Easy way to test it is when the engine is still cold unplug it while its running and see if the sound of the engine changes. There should be a distinct change in sound at that time. Of course, it could be an intermittant problem that may be hard to track down. Good luck.
     

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