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Odd starter question need some help

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 77crewcab, Sep 12, 2004.

  1. 77crewcab

    77crewcab 1/2 ton status

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    Okay heres the deal. I have a 74 block 454 with a 14 in flexplate 168 tooth. I currently have a Tilton starter that the PO put on that has the gear teeth worn down due to improper spacing. I can't use a standard reman starter cause the offset mounting whole has been drilled out as if to install a threaded insert yet has no threads. I had a shop look at installing a threaded insert, but they said they can't cause the hole is out of round and they are unable to fix it. So I am trying to find a replacement starter that will fit. I don't want to spend the money on an aftermarket high torque starter so I am looking for a factory style starter with the straight NOT staggerd mounting wholes. I have found the following options and hope someone can tell me if they will work. GM performance parts #1876552 HD reman (about $98) listed with Scoggin Dickey Parts Center as for SB v8 and 90deg v6 and list the flywheel/flexplate part numbers that it is compatable with all are 14/168. The pic in the mag shows strait mounting pattern. Or I have looked on partsamerica.com (tried having the counter guy at Advance look in their parts book to cross reference a part and he couldn't figure out anything. Didn't even know how to use the book just looked at the pics.) Anyway the website shows the 3664S starter (about $30) with strait mounting for the following vehicles 71 P30 w/454, 68 C20 w/396, 68 chevelle SS w/396, 68 Impalla w/427. Now all of these except the P30 show a 14/168 flexplate/flywheel. The P30 doesn't show a flexplate/flywheel listing but I assume it would be 14/168 as well. Now would either one of these options fit or should I just get the Tilton rebuilt ($100 local shop) I really don't need the high performance aspect and will be replacing the engine within the year at which time I would be able to buy a regular offset mounting starter again so I can't justify spending more than $100 on it now. Please help!
     
  2. mudhog

    mudhog THEGAME Staff Member Super Moderator

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    you could just go buy a normal starter and take the staggered hole cone off and put yours on the new starter
     
  3. 77crewcab

    77crewcab 1/2 ton status

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    I thought of that sorta. since the current starter is a mini starter the body is a totally different size and style. From what I can see by comparing the two, you can simply swap the nose area. I did think of just swaping the nose cone on the 3510 (standard style staggered mount) to one with strait mounting but the only style I can find would be for the 153 tooth flexplate or the 3664 style mentioned about for the 14/168.
     
  4. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Have you called Tilton to find out what the part costs? They're in Buellton, CA A starter like that is worth keeping since they rarely suffer from hot soak/start problems.
     
  5. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    As far as I remember,the 3664 "straight across" bolt pattern starter is for only the smaller 153 tooth flexplate,the 3510 "staggered"bolt pattern fits the larger diameter 168 tooth flexplate,the smaller flexplate is used mostly on six cylinder and 283,307,327and early 350's with a powerglide tranny,but also fits the TH250 and TH350 trannys also.You could put a small flexplate on any motor except a 400 or 454 (because they are externally balanced,but you might be able to buy an add on counterweight),the only other snag is most of the smaller flexplates only have the smaller bolt pattern for the tourque coverter,and have no provision to bolt up the TH400 converter--not sure if you could just drill new holes(might be the flexplate is smaller than the converter bolt pattern,not sure),or you could put a TH350 converter in the TH400,they are interchangeable. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Another option is to sawp in a SM465 tranny--the starter bolts to the bellhousing,not the block--a lot of work just to get a starter in it--are you sure the hole in the block is non-repairable??. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  6. 77crewcab

    77crewcab 1/2 ton status

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    Well the 3664 is listed for the 396 with 14 inch flexplate but after trying it I fugured out the either the listing is wrong and the 396 has the 153 style or the 396 has a different starter ear. On my 454 the 3664 would have to mount about 1-1.5 inches further out than normal. The GMPP starter turns out to be a stagered pattern. The Tilton I have has had a lot of problems with heat soak, a crack solenoid, the wire connecting the motor and solenoid is frayed and exposed and the teeth are all rounded down on the drive gear. I had my local alternator/starter shop look at it and they quoted $120 to do a thorough rebuild. So when I went over to Scoggin Dickey to check on the GMPP starter I just decided to bite the bullet and bought a CVR protorque starter for $154 including tax. It took me a couple hours to get it in and shimmed properly but it works great from the first crank and has a better design for the ign wire mounting than the Tilton and most of the after market starters, no more spade terminal that slips off once or twice a week. So it was a big wad of cash but at least I don't have any more problems and can use it on a variety of engines in the future if I need to. So all's well that ends well I guess. Thanks for the responses guys.
     
  7. diesel4me

    diesel4me 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I like the new gear reduction "mini"starters they have now--you can rotate the motor and solenoid to several different "clock"positions to better clear manifolds and headers.I was never a fan of the smallblock starter location,and the fact you had to drop the starter to change a battery cable(and good luck not cracking the cap on the solenoid after its been corroded a few years! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif)and I always remove the two red wires with the fusible links from that "pipe" on the bellhousing that goes right by the red hot exhust manifold,and re-route them to the positive battery post,where GM used to put them in the 60's--those wires ofen burn the way they had them routed--dont know why they felt it nessasary to move them in the first place!.Hope all your starter problems are solved--as for the listings in the parts catologs,there are many errors in those books.I recall one starter that had a cast iron nose that had 3 bolts,like a combination of the 3510 and the 3664 nose put together in a triangle pattern-They only listed that one for a few years in the early 70's-I sold a few of them to people who had stripped bolt problems,or a chipped corner of the block--I cant recall the number exactly,but I think it was a# 3696 starter--I could be wrong though,been a long time since I sold one!. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
     
  8. 77crewcab

    77crewcab 1/2 ton status

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    Well now that the starter problem is solved it is on to all the other problems that keep popping up, timing chain, rear wheel cylinders, valvestem seals, etc. Just getting a rebuilt engine sound better and better each day. At least it would solve a lot of the little anoying problems up front. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  9. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    What are you going to do with the old Tilton unit? I may be interested in it (but I have a hurricane to survive first /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif ).

    /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  10. 77crewcab

    77crewcab 1/2 ton status

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    E-mail me at davismonty@nts-online.net with TILTON in the subject and I will send you some pics of it. Gotta get some new batteries for my digicam so it might be a couple days. We could work out a deal if you are interested after seeing the pics.
     
  11. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    I'll be emailing you shortly. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  12. 77crewcab

    77crewcab 1/2 ton status

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    Hey John I'm not sure if you're getting my e-mail replies I keep getting a message saying it triggered some sort of filter on your end. Send me your zip and I'll check on shipping for you for whenever, I know about the storm but I'm in no hurry if you want it. It'll just sit in my truck until youre readdy for if you want it.
     
  13. nvrenuf

    nvrenuf NONE shall pass! Premium Member

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    I did get one email with a link to pics, I looked at them briefly but haven't been able to study them yet.

    I didn't think about the filter here at work, use my home email - nvrenuf@bellsouth.net (sorry for the confusion). Let me know what you want for it. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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