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okay.... not very happy right now ***PICS***

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by KRAZIE87K5, Aug 31, 2002.

  1. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Notice the yoke's cap, the circular opening on the DS for the 1350 ujoint, and then look at the yoke from the 14BFF with the imprint of the DS in it. WTF!!!! Why do I deserve this? I just don't understand why that happened. What to do? Sorry for the BIG picture... /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

    [​IMG]

    You can see the rest of the pics here:
    http://12.248.132.67/images/truck/rearyoke/

    Suggestions? Is that driveable? /forums/images/icons/blush.gif /forums/images/icons/frown.gif Just when I thought the rig was doing pretty good... /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

    -Dan
     
  2. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    axle wrap?
    or just too much travel?
    ramp test it
    then if you can get a friend to drive it for a couple of hard launches while you watch pinion climb
     
  3. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    It flexes real nice now (Borrego shackle flip installed)
    And yes, it axle wraps badly... but not sure what to
    do about that... maybe a track bar? But I don't want to
    loose flex... but dont want to loose the driveshaft either!
    Can't believe that I didn't notice this happening earlier...
    I feel pretty dumb now, since that end of the shaft is
    pretty much junk. And to think I thought that the noise
    was the detroit just acting up, locking goofy under the
    new 465 driving habits. /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

    I have to find a ramp around here that I can test on.
    Maybe I can test on a local piece of land that has so
    really steep hills... but its about 12mi. away. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

    Driveable?

    -Dan
     
  4. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    You could call Jess at High Angle to upgrade to 1410 joints. You gotta fix it anyway and the 1410 joints provide for much better angularity. However, you probably need to do something about that axle wrap too...
     
  5. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Have you done or seen the single ladder bar with front shackle mount on a flexy rig?
    did it kill the travel too much for Krazie's ride?
    that would be the first thing I would try as it shouldnt be that pricey to fab up and should be easy to pawn off on a buddy if you hate it.
     
  6. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    find a loading dock or concrete steps or forklift
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Well, I haven't done one yet, and I haven't seen one on a really flexy rig. However, I'm planning on building one like that for my rig very soon. As long as it’s built right, it shouldn’t limit flex too much, and the Moab Trip completely killed my rear F150 springs. The main leafs are so badly "waved" you can stick a pencil in between it and the second leaf in several places setting at static height.

    As for limiting flex, there has been some discussion on that recently on the pirate board. IMO, as I posted there, it shouldn't be too bad as long as the arm can twist (johny joint, loose heim, etc.) at least as much as the axle articulates AND you get it positioned right so that the arcs/angles are not fighting each other (which would force the springs to contort to compensate). I’m planning to mount mine with an arm the same length as my forward spring section. That will position the end (and shackle) right under the forward spring mount stabilizing cross member, and between the front spring eyes. This should minimize swing on the shackle and help eliminate binding caused by the arm forcing the springs to contort during travel. For simplicity, the shackle will likely be in compression on acceleration (i.e. the top of the shackle mounted to the cross member and the bottom to the arm). Some of the guys on PBB felt strongly that the shackle should be in tension, but I don’t see it as being that important. I would prefer tension for the obvious “stable system” arguments but, I don’t think it is worth the work in this case. We shall see…
     
  8. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    can you shoot a link to the discussion?
    though if it isnt visited by some of the 'real deal' guys it most likely wont have super info either
     
  9. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    I am wondering if it needs to be able to move side to side as well to prevent it acting as a panhard rod
    hiems at the axle, even laid flat, should do that
    no thought put into it yet so dont take that as gospel
     
  10. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Here is the link. Frankly, the info was pretty limited/lame, and, IMO, some was downright wrong/misguided, but I'm no expert.

    Anyway, I think the best *traditional* design will employ bushings top and bottom at the axle to allow some side movement and cushion effect. Then a bushing at the top of the shackle hard mounted to the cross member. All bushings are 1.5" YJs (or was that XJs? basically the same as GM 1.5s but with a shoulder) in my mental plan and they all are mounted parallel to the axle. The lower shackle joint is the one that is up for grabs. Either heim with jam nut loose (or high misalignment spacers) or a JJ (if one can be found with enough misalignment can be found). That is where the axle would be allowed to articulate. That is plan #1.

    Plan 2 is an offshoot of something I saw in Moab last week. It’s a bit simpler and cheaper. Again, bushings top and bottom at the axle, but no shackle on the front. Just a bushing (mounted as in Plan 1) allowing a female receiver to pivot up and down and stay pointed at the pinion. Then, the sway bar end just slides into the receiver. It can rotate without limit AND it can slide in and out as needed. The one I saw had a smooth bore receiver with no splines and used a splined drive shaft end on the arm. I think it was splined only to allow for grease. I’m still working through the implications of a design like this, especially if you can’t mount it close to the t-case output.

    There are also other things I’m looking at with regard to eliminating my spring killing ways. Including limiting straps, bump stops on my shackles, and maybe even bump stops to prevent up travel from inverting my rear springs.
     
  11. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Man I would love to see a diagram, or sketch of that... I think I get it, but not too sure. So its more of a link on the axis that controls axle wrap, vs. on the axis that controls sway?

    What about Steve's design?
    [​IMG]
    That design covers a little of both, seeing as he has eliminated the leafs (which takes away the axles side to side support) He uses a set of control arms in "V" shape, perpendicular to the axle, connecting to the frame on either side. Could this same design be used for a truck retaining its leafs?

    That link to the thread on POR would be nice too... Thanks all!!
     
  12. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Steve's setup is a WHOLE different ballgame. Your right, the wrap-control devices limit the pinion from going up and down with (ideally) minimal effect on the axles "sway" axis (articulation).
     
  13. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    short answer is no
    long answer is sure but you have to lose the leaves and go a real link suspension
    as the links in that one act as a locating device they will bind with the springs and you lose more then you gain
    I like that suspension a lot and will be doing something similar but with a much higher roll centre

    it is up to you how you choose to fix the problem, BadDog and I were thinking you wanted to cure the wrap quick n dirty without impacting your current setup, if the book is wide open then let the real fun begin.
     
  14. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Here are some more links on Pirate (fair warning - I didn't read carefully, just did a quick search and scan, so I do not in anyway guarantee the accuracy of any info in these posts).

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73084

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43668

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37669

    Here is the Sam's bar everyone is talking about (like my "Plan 1" above)
     
  15. thatK30guy

    thatK30guy 1 ton status Premium Member

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    I can't see any pics nor the clicky link. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif
     
  16. rodzzilla

    rodzzilla 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    When a drag car runs a Ladder bar set up with leafs, they use a housing floater set up. Basically it holds the axle in place side to side, but the ladder bar controls the pinon angle and axle wrap. The housing moves in the arc with the ladder bar because the spring padss are not mouted to the axle tubes.
     
  17. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    which is why on a 4x4 we use a single ladder bar and a shackle at the frame attacment point rather then a rigid mount
    in a drag car style ladder bar setup the only way the body can roll is through the bars flexing/deflecting, not good

    I think you have to allow for movement laterally at the axle as well, all those links show bars with restrictive lateral bushings
    if you are only trying to control wrap this isnt necesary
     
  18. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    So, what do you think would be the best approach to building an axle-wrap control device? I was mainly thinking of a modified "Sam's" type arm, or maybe the simpler setup I described above (but only after spending more time considering the behavior)...

    My criteria would be a device that is highly effective, non-limiting, simple and cheap. Roughly in that order. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif
     
  19. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    Why not do something like the ORD Blazer?
    Picture
     
  20. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    Re: okay.... not very happy right now

    IMO they dont work as well at any of the criteria
    they force the axle to either travel in an arc that is un-natural for the springs
     

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