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Opinions on putting together a Rally/Race Blazer

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by GRINCH, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. GRINCH

    GRINCH 1/2 ton status

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    I will be starting a new project soon. I purchased a rough 72 K5 for the purpose of building a Race rig. It must be capable of racing in Baja's, Rallys and Obstacle courses. It is all bone stock now with the exception of a newer posi in the rear. (don't know what it is yet). 350/465

    I will be stripping it down as much as possible and adding a full roll cage and adding driveline hoops.

    I want to keep it lower to the ground but have enough clearance to handle the jumps.

    What shocks would be the best. Don't want to reservoir type since this would bump me up a class.

    Springs- Stock or aftermarket???

    ANy other tips that will help build this racer would help. Most of the peeps that show up at the races are running scouts and older broncos. I will have the first Bowtie to compete.

    I smoked them all in the Sand and Mud Drags with my 90 Blaze but now need something to compete in for the other types of races.

    Thanks
     
  2. zcarczar

    zcarczar 1/2 ton status

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    Can you run a spring under front suspension? If so that will allow you to get the most travel possible while keeping the truck low to the ground. Check out Deaver spring for leaf springs. And run either a 2.0 Fox shock or something similar without resi's. But you will have to run dual, maybe triple shocks on each corner. O yeah convert it to a reverse manual valve body transmission and run a detroit or spool in the rear axle. And dont forget to truss the hell out of them. Hope that helps
     
  3. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Geez, where to start...........

    Shocks, this is where your most important area is gonna be. No resevior shocks huh, you will want to go with the biggest shock you can afford. Start off by looking at King Shocks, Fox Shocks, Sway Away and Bilstiens. Stay away from Rancho and the other cheap shocks. You may want to look at that new Explorer Pro Comp MX-6, it's mono tube. That's the type you want to stay with, the cheap ones are twin tube and they will heat up faster and shock fade is not your friend.

    Springs..........I could tell ya to get some custom Deavers or Nationals, but I don't know if you would need that good of a spring. If you could go to a spring under setup at least up front, this will help. The bigger arch will give you more travel, but you also have to watch your spring rates. Go with a spring that has a lot of thin leaves with tapered ends. Stay away from the thick leaves and square ends. Go no bigger than 4" if you stay spring over on the front. Heck, you may be able to get away with 2" to keep ya lower. Shocks are important (you will hear that again)

    Money is the key here, how much you want to spend? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Suspension is the key, everything comes second and shocks are most important!

    Shoot over to Race Dezert. Hit the message boards, specifically the shop area, do a search, there's some good info there. There's a few of us over there. I've got a ton of info from one of the spring people that has some knowledge in the suspension area, we can probably find some stuff in there to help you out.

    The next things you want to concentrate on is survivalbility. Truss the axles, truss the axles. This will help them survive those jumps, I've seen some videos from the stuff you are talking about and the trusses are needed, and stay away from aftermarket, get them custom made.

    Tranny, get a cooler(oh wait, you've got a stick:() Brace the steering box area.

    If ya got alot of tight, technical stuff, make sure your 4wd is in order, it will get ya places in this world. Lost the top.

    Also on RDC, there's links to all the places I mentioned above.

    If you have any more questions, drop me a line and I'll get ya an answer.
     
  4. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    O yeah convert it to a reverse manual valve body transmission

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Ya just got suckered like I did /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gifAt least I caught my booboo /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Speaking of spring under, y'all don't know the specs of those fullsize Jeep D44s do ya? /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  5. ben427

    ben427 1/2 ton status

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    I really suggest going auto for racing, around here ths 377/th350/np208 combo is the most popular for gearing and weight. it helps to shift the engine back as far as you can for weight distribution. three link w/Coils in the rear and spring under in the front is about the best working setup. Stepping up the rear of the frame will give you axle clearance for travel yet keep the rig low to the ground.
    put the rig on a mucho diet, no interior panels, no carpet, one seat. no dash, glovebox, rear floor, glass etc. with a good motor and gearing you could be a force to reckon with. Good luck /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  6. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
    three link w/Coils in the rear

    [/ QUOTE ]
    Haven't checked out their rules, but I would venture to guess that if resevoirs would bump him a class, then links and coils on the rear will bump him a class too.
     
  7. GRINCH

    GRINCH 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for all of the input so far.

    Here's the link to our rules Rules

    I will be racing in the Northwest. Mostly Montana...

    We just finished our winter Baja so snow and ice are a Issue.

    Winter Baja
     
  8. tsm1mt

    tsm1mt Registered Member

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    I wondered how long before I saw a post like this.. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

    Congratulations on the purchase. If nothing else, I really like the styling of the 67-72 trucks.

    Your primary competition in "new" race rigs is probably the 80s TTB Broncos. But the older racers around here are predominantly Jeep based, with a few highly competitive Early Broncos, too.

    The TTB Broncos work VERY well out of the box, and even better with a 4" lift and double shocks and a few minor mods. They're hard to beat, and CHEAP.

    Probably the best pseudo-local person to contact is Charlie Shaw at Willard's Off-road in Billings. Charlie runs a 70s K5. It USED to be 4x4, but he's since removed the transfer case, but left the Dana 44 up front, though it's now empty - just a housing.

    Granted, he runs the reservoir shocks and has a lot of money into his rig, but he'd also be able to provide you with a lot of information to get you started.

    Charlie likes to run the 'open' baja and obstacle courses in the western half of the state and Wyoming, and really isn't set up for a close/tight "obstacle" race, like we used to run in Missoula (Lolo) and Bozeman.

    I've thought of going spring-under on my own racer, with 4" springs, instead of my current spring-over-axle setup. I haven't though.. just hasn't been a priority.

    I do know where there's a FSJ SUA full width front housing though.

    Some type of ladder bar for the rear end if you're going to make any power.

    DEFINITELY truss the axles. I have pictures of my Chevy .5" thick tubed Dana 44 broken in two. Ripped the longside tube right out of the center section, and wasted just about everything. I salvaged the stub shafts, short side inner, and the R&amp;P. Carrier, long side 'shaft, bearings were all dead.

    The untrussed front end survived 2 or 3 years of racing.

    4 corner leaves are cheap and easy and simple.. coils would be interesting, but up the complexity factor, which can affect reliability, and of course the amount of time it takes to get everything "dialed in" - I wanted to lower my motor and move it back a few inches this winter, but I think I finally have the front suspension dialed in and stopped breaking transfer cases, so I chose to just stuff everything back in the way it was.

    When you're ready, you're welcome to borrow my bender, and my shop for cage building. We should have a club 'cage bending weekend. Brandon needs one for his K5. I apologize.. I wanted to be ready to start doing this a while ago, but rebuilding the motor over the winter hurt re-caging plans. :-)

    Shocks - doubles, or triples would be a good idea. I started with 4 single $30 shocks. It worked.

    You can definitely tell when they'd faded though. I have some video I can share and you can watch how some of the rigs run great the first 5 minutes, but the least 15 minutes they're just wobbling down the course from jump to jump.

    I'm running Bilstein 5100s on the front now, and they're doing well. I couldn't feel any heat in them after any heat in the Winter Baja, though I wasn't running it very hard, either.

    I bought mine on sale, for $60-$75 each, IIRC.

    Reservoir shocks won't officially bump you up a class.. nothing in the books about it.. but if anyone else shows up with reservoirs, you'll end up running them, since the reservoir have-nots don't want to have to outdrive you 45 minutes into an hour long race when they haven't had any shocks (for all purposes) for the past 30 minutes, and you're still going strong.

    Should also note that the guys with reservoirs like to run for bigger purses.. which means bigger entry fees.

    They run a "Heavy Metal" Baja in Powell, and in Billings sometimes.. $100 gets you in.

    I stay in the $25 class, and complain when it becomes a $50 class.. :-)

    I'll be posting something to the M4x4A site soon, too.. Michelle wants a drag car.. and I think it'll be as much K5 as it is IH.
     
  9. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    there is a guy in Kamloops that has built several trucks to fit the multipurpose that you are aiming at.
    he has run Baja as well as hillclimbs and even Rallys it on ashphalt with a tire change and hieght adjustable suspension.
    most fun for the $ but you cannot expect to win too often against heavy hitters in their class but you get to run a lot
     
  10. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    About time y'all showed up around here /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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