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Outfitting an 870 express for home defense

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by laketex, Dec 9, 2003.

  1. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    After a quick trial run in my cramped apt with my fullsize 870 hunting shotgun, I can see it's failings. It's way too long, only holds 4 shells since I refuse to leave one in the chamber in the house, and has no light.

    What I'm thinking about is an 18.5" barrel, 7 shot tube extention, shell holder, and tactical flashlight. All items that I can change back to stock easily so I can go hunting. If you have suggestions, please look at these links and let me know what you think.

    Bryan

    Chromoly extention $42
    18" barrel

    Tactical Lite

    Shell holder

    Any comments or advice would sure be appreciated! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  2. 88K5Jimmy

    88K5Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Can't really give you any info but post up here

    Scroll down and you will see a tactical forum. I have an 870 and they have given me a lot of info and such.
     
  3. big pappa b

    big pappa b 3/4 ton status

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    Are you feeling unsecure in your new surroundings? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    Note to self: do not go to Bryan's house looking for more calendar photos /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  4. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    not insecure, but I'd like myself and more importantly, my wife, to feel secure inside her own home. Sometimes when i'm gone, she gets scared, but if she had a recourse upon some sort of emergency, I think it'd be better for her.
     
  5. Emmettology 101

    Emmettology 101 3/4 ton status

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    Jar up some of your gas.. Then when an intruder breaks in smash the jar near them.. Hot wing ass air to the rescue!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    That sounds pretty cool though with the shotgun set-up... You going to get the pistol grip for the extension too?
     
  6. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    Holy [darn] you are one precautious SOB. Why not just buy her a big ass rotty? Or one of those pre-trained German Shephard attack dogs? Who doesn't want a dog that answers to over 200 commands right out of the box??? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Shotgun accessories. As if your neighborhood isn't safe. You live in a rich little yuppyville suburb, just on the edge of the sticks. You REALLY think some criminal is going to ALL THE FREAKIN WAY OUT THERE???

    Not to mention having your wife shootin up every squeak or pop in the night in a TOWNHOUSE??? Make sure you check with the neighbors to find out where they sleep, and establish NO-FIRE ZONES...

    Good grief.

    -Dan
     
  7. stu454

    stu454 1/2 ton status

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    I'd be carefull adding a magazine extension. Might be illegal in Illinois.

    Four rounds of 00 buck should be enough fo almost any situation. Of course, more makes me feel better, too /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

    Everything else sounds good, though. Stick with the standard buttstock.

    Re: ammo, try Federal's tactical personal defense reduced recoil buckshot. Easier to fire and there are still 8 or 9 .30 cal. pellets sent out with each pull of the trigger.

    Good hunting /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif,
     
  8. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Pistol Grips are fairly inaccurate. I'm banking that if my wife has to use it, she's gonna be plenty nervous and jittery...at least with the std. stock, she has one end anchored by her shoulder.

    Dan- I like to be prepared for every eventuality. We can't have dogs in our townhouse. Even if it was ok with the townhouse manager, I'd feel like it was a little cruel with no yard to play in. As far as bad stuff going on, last year at halloween, someone in St. Charles shot a trick or treater. There's gang activity in both Aurora and Elgin. Not much here, but sometimes they do cross over to prey on the law abiding yuppies. As far as living in the sticks, perhaps to you. For me this is by far the most densely populated area I've ever lived in, and the most unfriendly. Therefore, I count on myself, my wife, you who lives 20 miles away, Eric who lives 10 miles away, God, and the constitution. I have always kept a loaded shotgun beside my bed, and will always continue to do so. It is my right by the laws of the United States of America to defend my home against intruders. If my family is on the line, I couldn't give a rats ass about Illinois state law. I'll do what I have to do.

    I keep my shotgun loaded with 3 rounds of #4 Turkey shot. At close range, it should do a number on someone's face or torso, yet be slowed down considerably by walls. I don't consider those first 3 rounds to be a lethal threat to anybody that's not in my range of fire in that particular room. However, the last shell as well as the ones I'll keep on the stock are expander slugs. I figure if I need more than the 3 of turkey shot, I need something that has some stopping power.
     
  9. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    http://www.city-data.com/city/Batavia-Illinois.html

    I'm glad you want to be prepared. I'm just lookin out for ya man. Today if you or your wife shoot an intruder, there's a damn good chance you will be sued in turn for whatever their damn attourny can dream up. Its rediculous, granted. But it could happen to you.

    I would also recommened that you get a copy of the local laws there in Batavia, and find out what force is acceptible in a invasion. There are rules here big guy... you aren't in Texas anymore.

    Just take into account that Batavia's level of criminal activities in comparison to the rest of America are relatively low. Step back, take a deep breath and decide what you're going to do. Why not buy an alarm system? The system plus the cost of the service probably aren't even as much as all this weaponry you are purchasing above and beyond what you already own.

    God help you if you ever need to use such force.

    Take care man.

    -Dan
     
  10. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    That was an interesting link. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    I can see your point that the odds are higher elsewhere. However, there is still some crime and it's not going to happen to me. I'm not one to close my eyes and let criminals take what they want. I will fight back and fight back hard. Where can i find the city laws on this sort of thing?
     
  11. KRAZIE87K5

    KRAZIE87K5 1/2 ton status

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    City of Bativia website:
    http://www.cityofbatavia.net

    City council meeting minutes:
    http://www.cityofbatavia.net/CityCouncil/minutes/2003/minutes.html

    Otherwise:
    http://www.cityofbatavia.net/depts/Police/index.html

    And finally:
    Important Telephone Numbers
    Batavia Police Department: 879-2840
    Batavia Government Center (City Hall): 879-1424
    Batavia Chamber of Commerce: 879-7134
    Batavia Park District: 879-5235
    Batavia Township Offices: 879-1323
    Batavia Teen Center: 761-1664
    Kane County Judicial Center: 232-3400
    Kane County State’s Attorney: 232-3500
    Kane County Sheriff’s Office: 232-6840
    Voter Registration: 232-5990
    Batavia Dial-A-Ride: 892-1999
    Secretary of State – Aurora: 896-1911
    Secretary of State – Elgin: 1-847-697-2100

    /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    -Dan
     
  12. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    yeah...I dont want to ask. Just look. Thanks for the first 3.
     
  13. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I would certainly not shoot a person with #4. 00 is the smallest I'd ever aim at a person. If your wife has to shoot someone, she sure as hell better hit him and kill him with the first shot. When she's all nervous, having to pump that shotgun isn't going to work.

    I've got the 870 super mag synthetic and I swear it'll hold more than that.

    Did you break into my house and steal my gun collection, Bryan? Great minds think alike. First the 10/22, now the 870......

    I bought mine on my 18th birthday. /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    All those lights and mag extensions are poser crap. Just give the wife a couple rounds of buckshot and some instruction on the operation and go for it. You don't need any more than 4 rounds with a shotgun. ONE is all it takes. Even if she blew someone's leg off they'd bleed out within seconds.
     
  14. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    What I'm thinking about is an 18.5" barrel, 7 shot tube extention, shell holder, and tactical flashlight. All items that I can change back to stock easily so I can go hunting. If you have suggestions, please look at these links and let me know what you think.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    external shell holders are a good idea, but Im not a big fan of them being on the buttstock in a tactical situation... better to use a traditional side-of-the-receiver type (aka a "sidesaddle"). A sidesaddle allows the shooter to reload with the left hand while the right can be used to fire the round still in the chamber if need be. Naturally, accuracy and the ability to control the shottys recoil from a 1-hand+underarm tuck position isnt optimal, but if the guy springs around a corner with a knife and you're sitting there fiddling with a buttstock shell holder and have no ability to shoot, you're gonna get ventilated.

    AFA #4 vs 00 goes, there are atleast 2 good reasons to use the former for home defense.

    1) #4 is less likely to penetrate the walls of a standard home and still have the energy to be lethal. Be pretty depressing if you shot and killed some bad guy only to find out that ur kid also caught a 00 pellet (about 9mm in caliber) in the head on the far side of a wall.

    2) at normal in-home combat ranges (almost always 12' or less) a shotgun with a legal length barrel (18" or more) doesnt really spread out all that much. Hollywood likes to show 3' wide patterns at 10' from shottys, but it just doesnt happen (atleast from any shotty Ive ever seen). At any rate, the shot pattern is prolly gonna be closer to 3-4" across (with a few strays) than 3'. Why does this matter? well, at that range it seems more likely that a smaller shot like #4 would probably transfer more energy to the target than 00. mainly because most of those 00's rounds will likely fly right through soft tissue and out the other side (again,potentially killing friendlys) but also because (depends on the ammo used) a greater volume and mass of #4 shot fits in an equal sized shotgun round because its smaller and can therefore be stacked inside the round more efficiently. if the bad guy takes the entire pattern in the chest/abdomen area, the #4 will likely do more damage because of the greater mass of the projectiles in total and their tendancy to not penetrate as much of the target. rounds that fly all the way through are, on the one hand likely to cause significant tissue damage, but on the other arent transfering all their energy into said tissue of the target.

    naturally, if the range is greater than the norm (ie the action spills out into the street) then naturally the 00 has significant advantages but #4 is still entirely viable at very close ranges which make up the VAST majority of in-home defense shootings.

    if we have any ballistics gurus here Im sure they can enlighten us all. All i know is if some f00 catches a 3" 12ga shell full of #4 from 10' or less, he is going to have a VERY bad day.

    j
     
  15. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    Exactly. And in a townhouse, that's my very worry. I don't have kids, but I do have a wife and neighbors, and I'm not exactly sure how their houses are laid out. I could be shooting through my living room, and end up with shot in their bedroom. I agree with you on the shot spread thing too. Next time you go target shooting, Tim, take the ol' shotgun just for kicks. Aim 12' away from the target with #4 and see if it's not obliterated. As far as a first shot kill, that takes second seat to making sure I just hit the bad guy. I'll take care of the rest before the police arrive. With my family and neighbors intact.
     
  16. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I have heard this same arguement before, but I just couldn't ever see myself shooting at a person with ammo like that. Over pentration would be bad, but shooting someone and not killing them and having them sue you and take everything you've got would be worse.

    I agree with you in a sense though, I took a tree down with 3 1/2" BBBs once.
     
  17. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    Hmm, I did a little research on this subject and it appears that in a way, we're both right.

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

    According to what I'm taking from that, if you're expecting to kill with the first shot, birdshot isn't going to do it. Appears that the 00 Buck I've been using isn't such a good idea in the house either, however, it says that birdshot will not penetrate the body deep enough to kill someone quickly.

    Either way, I can definitely see the over-pentration idea which is kinda the problem with using a shotgun for home defense. It's really powerful but you have to pick your ammo long before an intruder gets there.
     
  18. laketex

    laketex 3/4 ton status

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    i read the initial page and see your points. Maybe a 4ga buck.

    tried to go to the main page and surfcontrol coughed up on me. I'll try again at home.
     
  19. j20m715

    j20m715 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Holy [darn] you are one precautious SOB.
    You live in a rich little yuppyville suburb, just on the edge of the sticks.
    Good grief.

    -Dan

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Bryan is a yuppy /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    Yeah Bryan
    You arent in Texas anymore, up there the criminals have more rights than you !!!!
     
  20. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    just for clarification purposes, when I was talking about #4 i meant #4 buckshot (.24 cal pellets), not that tiny bird shot stuff.

    at any rate, interesting reading. I do think its a little funny though how they consider 6" of penetration as "not enough" to be lethal... last time I checked, my heart, lungs, brain, liver, kidneys, most major arteries, stomach and pretty much everything else vital is within 6" of the top layer of skin assuming I got shot from the front or back... if turned to the side, ok, the far lung and kidney are safe... but not much else. i guess what they are trying to say is that the rib cage provides enough protection that smaller shot wont be lethal quickly enough... but it still sounds funny the way they say it. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif dunno about the beer-bellies f00s who wrote that article, but I have a lot of vital stuff in that 6"!!! /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif

    j
     

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