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Pain Therapy... Alan Mandic in a Nutshell, or nuthouse... rant, rave, personal crap

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by sled_dog, Apr 4, 2005.

  1. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    As many of you know I'm not the "my body is a temple" type. Tattoos, piercings, brands, cuts, and sometimes play piercing are not uncommon to my flesh. All of my tattoos have been thought out, real feeling too them, but I can't say some of the sessions haven't been "pain therapy". Whenever I am depressed, sad, generally upset with my life, I desire a tattoo. I rarely desire piercings, too little pain and "effort" into such a large thing for me. But seriouslly, I find the pain of a tattoo needle, therapeutic. Maybe it is something with focusing on pain for a couple hours, verses whats up with my life at the time. I take anti-depressants, I make no secret of that, I've done the shrink thing, I talk to my parents openly about my feelings, hell if joe schmo on the street walked up and asked if I was heavily depresesd at the moment I'd probably tell him my life story. What do I have to hide? Should I be ashamed of who I am or how I feel?(both rhetorical)

    I don't cry, I have a limited capacity for it. Sometimes I seem horribly uncompassionate because of it. You can generally tell by my behavior if I am depressed or angry, but for the most part I don't show much emotion outwardly. Tell me my grandmother just died and I will have the same look I did 10 minutes ago. I'll say "that sucks" in an unconvincing tone. Its not that I don't care its just... me. Its the way I've been since who knows when. I cried a lot when I was young... a lot. I guess I'm cried out now.

    Everytime I get tattooed I feel better about myself. I'm tall, skinny, and very white. I earned(note EARNED) the nickname "Powder" in school after I shaved my head recently. Every time I get a tattoo I feel far better about myself. I get a self image boost out of them. I truly feel my self image is much better than it was 2 years ago. I attribute it to the tattoos. When I look at myself in a mirror I no longer see my bowed calf bones(though they are still weird), or my one anomylous rib that protrudes out farther than the rest. I look at the naked demon on my ribs, resting her head softly in her own arms, sleeping away on top of a mountain. Free and unworried. I look at the designs on my back and just smile. Anytime I question my religious beliefs(or lack of) I think of the piece on my back and ponder its different pieces. The rest just make me feel good, they don't have the meaning those 2 pieces do but I feel good about them.

    The thing is that my tattoos are much more than just the self conciousness booster I noted, sitting in the chair getting them made me feel so much better too. I remember that when I look at them. If I'm depressed, I get a tattoo. I not only feel better about myself but something about the pain is enjoyable, its sustained feeling in a way I can't relate. Its something I don't understand. It makes me feel, not just pain, but feel something else. I never walk out of a tattoo session depressed or angry. I never walk out all upset and wishing I could cry. I only walk out wondering when the next time I will do it is.

    Do you guys think this "pain therapy" is unhealthy? I'm hoping you take this seriouslly and don't just say I'm some masochistic freak. I can assure you I'm not. I have a threshold for pain above many peoples, but I don't derive sexual pleasure or even imense pleasure from it most of the time. Hell I hate to have my nipples bitten(like you needed to know that). Tshy raised the comment that I get tattooed "to feel and rival the status quo". I don't think it nearly the rebelious thing she does. Maybe initially. I could care less if its accepted, I get angry at people who put people with tattoos down for certain. I'll be nothing but angry if(when) I am discriminated against for my tattoos. As of yet all I've gotten is people who I laughed off when they kind heartdly gave me crap about it. Sure I derive some pleasure from the shock value stuff. Take off my shirt, or stretch and hearing someone go "you're tattooed?", smile and pull off the shirt to show I'm "more" than just tattooed. I like to think of it that way, I don't know if its making more of the ink in my skin or what. I guess its showing off... thats the young in me I guess. I keep my shirt on most of the time anymore. I'd rather keep my work to myself most of the time. I'd rather sit and stare in a mirror at the face on my ribs than have some person just say "thats cool, but I like the tribal like thing on your back better" :mad:

    eh I'm ranting and raving now... lots of personal crap in here, hope some of it makes sense or that any of you bother to read it. even if not I feel better for saying it.
     
  2. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    Not really. Every so often when I'm feeling down, I'll take the cartridge off my Taser and shove the thing into my crotch and light it off for a few seconds. I usually feel better about myself afterwards.............................
     
  3. fordeater

    fordeater 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    i would say its unhealthy, but on the other hand, you really enjoy it, so its a tough call. I enjoy breaking stuff, some consider that unhealthy, but to each his own.

    P.S. Got any pics of your tats
     
  4. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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  5. fordeater

    fordeater 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    nice tats. I like the 1st leg one, thats pretty tight
     
  6. Cricket

    Cricket 3/4 ton status

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    You seem perfectly normal to me, never gave me any other impression. Intelligent, calm, well spoken, and polite in general on this board. Good sense of humor as well.

    I don't see what could be wrong with body art, there are a lot of people who do it. Pretty mainstream anymore.

    Everybody has depression of one sort or another, the problems usually crop up when you start believeing your the only one experiencing it. We all deal with it in different ways.

    If you enjoy tats then more power to you.
     
  7. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Christ, make me think at 4AM when all-I-want-to-make-is-pizza

    1.

    Being mindful of what people will think is normal. It's what drives a large part of our experience. The baser things, if you're smart, don't factor (food, transportation, clothes, etc.) but there's always some thing or some talent you just want to be exposed. Yo0u want admiration of those who matter.

    I think the issue you want resolved is this rather than the healthyness or unhealthyness of the guild of pain. As long as you're not cutting off fingers, or going Kakihara on yourself, you'll be fine.

    2.

    Insensitivity projected generally means sensitivity in reality. I've gotten beyond the duality of that, but for years I was that way. I'd break down about twice a year. If you can be honest with yourself and honest with everyone else, you can be singular. Try not to analyze yourself so technically. Technical analyzation of a romantic ideal such as emotion is pretty hard. It's like trying to find technical precision in music instead of feeling.

    3.

    Tattoos are fine and all, just make sure the reason you feel good about them isn't that you will be able to show people them. That can be part of the reason, but shouldn't be the whole. Imagine a truck built soley on what would impress. Scary no?

    4.

    You're skirting issues around the pain, but... Pain is fine. Pain is the only real base emotion we can turn to at times. What other animalistic recourse is there. Maybe hunger, but that's hard for someone to do in limited time. So, an animalistic, base sensation. No technicality, no romantic details, just degree and severity. You feel more alive because you feel more like you're dying.





    I don't try an explain it, I just feel like being vicious
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2005
  8. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    I used to think tattoos were an underlying sign of immaturity and shortsightedness, but I've revised my opinion, partly because of you.


    But for the question;

    Your whole point that it's pain therapy at times indicates that there's something you need that you're not getting. I don't think I'm saying anything you don't already know, mostly because anything I would ask you to determine that, you've already answered in this post.

    Do you also feel dry emptiness? Severe boredom? Severe self-doubt at times? Some hobby's cling long in the background while some in the foreground come and go? Constant feeling of waiting for something, or like you're just keeping busy at the moment? Life feels like it's in black and white even though you see in color?

    I would say the pain therapy is just short term escape (I don't need to, though, you've more or less already explained that). The trouble with it is that whatever need it is that you're lacking won't really be filled by it, and eventually, you'll run out of room for the pain therapy.

    I'm sure you already know this, but there's an underlying problem you're avoiding or just can't put your finger on. Not that you need to stop body art and find this missing piece, but the pain therapy is only short-term and won't give you lasting comfort that you may be seeking.

    How is your relationship with your dad? I think people sometimes fail to realize the impact of the fathers role in upbringing. Some kids do fine without it, others develope various issues from it. My dad and I have a fine relationship, and I always thought we did, but as I started learning stuff to be a better dad to my kids, I started recognizing ways my dad parented and how they affected me as an adult. You can't change your dad, but you can learn where certain elements of your personality come from and change or deal with them better as you recognize them.

    Have you talked to more than 1 headshrinker? I've talked to 3 or 4 in my life, and they're all vastly different. Of them, 1 guy actually had a decent answer for the reason I was there. 1 guy actually told me I need to go 4 wheeling more often...:haha: Heck, I paid $50 to find that...?
     
  9. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Oh man, i was sure you wer gonna spring JC on him :D
     
  10. newyorkin

    newyorkin 1 ton status

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    Why do I seem to repeat myself? I think I said the same thing like 3 times in one post... Anyway, sorry to anyone that noticed.

    Anyway, I forgot to add, when you went to a shrink, what were you hoping to get from it, like what was your goal, and were they voluntary or mandatory sessions?

    I've had mandatory shrink experiences (another damning point of public school to me :wink: ), and voluntary, and I found most to be excellent at stating the obvious.
    The last guy I ever talked to nailed depression where I was expecting ADD, so that experience was good after all. He said he would help me work my way out of it, but I ended that and worked it out on my own, and I think it's been much better since, although I still find myself drifting from goals. I haven't determined the original cause, but I suspect it's childhood related.
    Point is, the shrink helped me find what I couldn't put my finger on.
    Maybe if you've only tried one shrink, a different one can help you identify anything that might be wrong or lacking.


    Something like 70% of adults are in depression...


    Am I disappointing your stereotype of Jesus freaks? :rotfl: Or rather, your "art"?

    If Alan's interested in preaching or Jesus, I'm sure he knows who he can talk to about them.
     
  11. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Hey, me too! Never went more than once. Talked about guns mostly. Got my "not too crazy" certificate, and went back to school.

    Misappropriate goals. "How are going to pay for the status car we bought"

    Of course that's assumption of a steryotipical idiot in my head.

    CK5 is better than any "shrink"

    My art has nothing to do with anyone but myself. You can bear witness though

    No, I think that that was almost verbatim to a Jesus comercial I see every night when the cheap adspace comes on, no kidding. "Feeling lonely, like no one loves you, lost in an unkind world?" "TRY A LITTLE JESUS TODAY!"

    I tried to read the bible recently. I got 7 verses in and couldn't decide if god was making heavn out of the sea or making earth out of space or a mix of the two or what. He started bending light, so I skipped to revalations.
     
  12. boggerless

    boggerless 1 ton status Premium Member

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    RJ i tried the same thing years ago. just picking up the BIBLE and reading it from the beginning .i only know one guy who did it and thats cuz he was in the brigg. :laugh: he hit an officer while in the navy and thats all there was to read. he said he read it seven times and got nothing out of it. because he wasn't looking for anything, i'll read an AVON book just kill time and i get nothing out of that! the BIBLE hasn't been around and changed people for two thousand years cuz it's an easy read. you can read the same thing a year apart and get some thing new out of it. :) anyway ALLAN, drugs and alcohol are bad for your temple(body). tattoos and stuff are cool.the way you described your self ,you sound like your not happy with your body. we all look different, i have a slight curviture of my spine. my left arm is farther away from my body than my right.i have skinny legs,but who cares??and i have 5 tattoos,some are old school junk. :surepal: what am i gonna do? cover them with new tats.!!!!!!! :D just try and think of all the posatives in you life.DARYL
     
  13. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    DOH I lost my post.... no idea how or where

    uhh lets see

    No religion for me, thanks for respecting that guys.(serious)

    No drugs, rare alcohol for me.

    My personal image is pretty crappy, but I'm slowly working on that. When medicated I feel much better about the way I look. I have chicken legs, but they are the strongest part of my body so I don't care how they look, they WORK. I'm pale white, and I like it that way. Any tan I get is just incidental from working outside. I wear SPF 45 on my tattoos. I like being white, I like chicks that like being white. Milky white skin is really attractive to me, even if the trend these days is to become latino brown :mad: Tattoos and working out are helping on the self image certainly. I like the new nipple piercing, though some reason on pec now looks smaller... eh whatever

    Dad, thats a long story. I love him, he loves me. I'm really seeing that these days(now that I'm out of his house). He calls randomly just to check in and see how things are. Its nice to have. He used to be a drunk, but gave that up and things have been good since. Still have a fear of him from those days, but I stand up to him now so whatever. I'm 19, we fight, its inevitable. He was a crazy kid and seems to have completely forgotten that. He hates tattoos and thinks they are just for bikers(which he was :rolleyes:) but I respect his view even if he doesn't mine.

    Shrinks, been to a few. Counselors in each of my schools knew me well, from a young age on. Never anything mandated other than those counselors. I am on an anti-depressant. I'm bad about taking them, sometimes I get that stupid "I'm doing fine no need for these" thing going on. Other times I just plain forget. Right now I stopped taking them because I'm tired of the effects they have on my body. They have given me acid reflux(for which I take another med now), and some other stuff I won't discuss in open forum. I still had some nasty mood swings on them. Including fits of depression and anger. Could be a need to increase dosage. I was on Zoloft and on a fairly hefty dosage but not so much of this new drug.

    All of the above. I've jumped from hobby to hobby in life. Moutain biking for a year or so("hardcore" into it), computers(has strung along but was the main focus for a long time), and now motorsports and offroading. The latest has stuck around longer than I think any hobby ever before. When I get a hobby in my head, I almost obssess. If you want to know smallblock chevy specs or random facts about stuff you can ask me out of the blue and I quote stuff like a service manual. When I enjoy something, I latch on and milk it, work on it, add to my knowledge. Its what I do. Snowmobiles were before trucks. I used to know specs for all the major sleds. I haven't been keeping up since money dictates no riding.

    I'm constantly waiting for something. I always feel the moment is just standing in line waiting for the real life to happen. I still don't feel any different than I did in high school as far as the reality of the world or the way things go in my head.

    I'm hardcore into self doubt at times. Mostly when in the midst of a depressive bit. I really don't think I can do anything at those times. No idea how I get out of it really. Last night I slept, I felt better this morning. Thats the way I am almost everyday. I'm great in the morning, I'll smile, be happy, whatever. By 8:00 at night, I'm depressed beyond belief, snap at everyone, angry about everything I feel the slightest justification in. It seems to build through the day. I don't care for dealing with the majority of people so I'm sure that has an effect. Then I get home alone and things just go up and up for some odd reason. Or down however you look at it. Overall all of this hurts my relationship with T a lot. Along with self doubt I have sever cases of doubting other peoples intentions or cares. I often, if not always think people really don't give a ****, they are just being nice to get something.

    What am I really looking for? If I could answer that I'd tell you. If you can answer it, by all means let me know. I keep waiting for a snap thing to happen where my life changes and the sky opens up, the sun shines.... I know it will never happen. Only the bad things in life happen in a snap, good only comes progressively. Sometimes when I'm medicated things are cheery and I hate it almost as much as being depressed. I don't know if its that I've been that way for so long but I sometimes would rather be the introverted, angry, sad, masochistic(on some level) **** who borders on bipolar. Once in a while thats the reason I stop my meds. I never understood how psychotic people would think they could stop taking their meds till I started taking them. You really just don't think the same on mental medications, sometimes you set yourself on a path so intently it just has to be correct.

    I don't know, this is me. Daily battles in my head over simple things. Feel like I'm just watching someone elses life a lot. Wishing for a snap change. Sometimes I think it would be nice to believe in religion. I lost that faith a long long time ago. I don't really think I ever believed. I just went with it cause it was the "cool" or "normal" thing. I wore a cross around my neck. I went to CCD class. I got the word GOD stuck in my vocabulary.
     
  14. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    Hi Alan!

    I've always looked at tattoos as a way of explaining myself, to myself. ( I have a few.. the "temple" needed decorating, lol.)

    As far as the pain involved, I never really thought about it. I'm pretty stoic by nature, and I have a high endurance level for any kind of pain, so I just looked at the needle burn as the price I paid to have a picture that I loved.

    I approach all of my life like that... if the end result is worth it, I'll go thru a wall to get it done.. I know what a busted nose is about, and frankly, I don't care.

    like you, I also don't cry very much. I end up being the one people lean on in times of tragedy. I love my people very much, and I'm loyal to a fault, but it's tough for me to act vulnerable because I remember being in school and getting picked on by an entire roomful of people.. ever disappear in a crowded room? I can do it very well. I kept myself to myself, and that's my wife's biggest complaint about me.. i can slip into that habit like right now.

    when I first started getting tats ( day I turned 18 ) they also functioned as sort of an armor.. they kept people at a distance, which is what I wanted..Well, I it wasn't what I wanted, but it was necessary for survival.

    since then, I've changed a lot and gotten over myself, I'm just happy I picked tats I'm still happy with. I still get some looks at church though, when I wear a T shirt and folks can see my arms. I just tell them that Jesus destroyed the depression that made me slave to my emotions, but I still like the pictures.

    Tom
     
  15. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    2 days after I turned 18 for me.

    distance has been a goal at times but anymore tattoos are so accepted people bother me more than leave me alone :mad:
     
  16. 4by4bygod

    4by4bygod 1/2 ton status

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    My favorite questions.. "did those hurt", or " what does that tattoo mean"?

    I've found that snarling and walking fast helps with that distance thing.

    tom
     
  17. Resurrection_Joe

    Resurrection_Joe 1 ton status

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    Contentment, love, and peace
     
  18. boggerless

    boggerless 1 ton status Premium Member

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    wow you just described me?!?! I'M serious.i was the same way and still am. THANKS for letting me see ME!i hated people, and did not like my looks. i worked out until i had 17 inch arms. and to me they were still small in my eyes.i had to have the best of everything and stayed un happy.i found JESUS last october.SORRY and i'm happy most of the time,i still have issues though.but for the most part IT'S ALL GOOD. drinking beer was my medication.not at work or anything but after everything was done, time to booze. a maintenence drunk. :laugh: WOW,thanks again DARYL
     
  19. PhoenixZorn

    PhoenixZorn 1/2 ton status

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    Being waaay too damn tired to read all the information herein, I'll just post my response now, and read it all tomorrow.

    I don't consider pain therapy a bad thing at all, unless of course by pain therapy you mean purposely injuring yourself, or having someone else purposely injure you.

    A tatoo is not an injury, it is art. No matter how many times it's been done on someone else (I noticed your's were out of books, so it's entirely possible that someone else has the same tat somewhere in the world) it is still 100% undisputably, art. I have 5 tattoos, all of which I either drew entirely myself, or had a hand in designing from scratch. The guys who walk into a tattoo shop and point at the flash on the wall and say "I want that one"... they aren't in it for the art, they are in it to be cool... in 20... maybe 5 years down the line, they will look at that tattoo and say "WTF was I thinking?!?!"

    I look at a piece of flash on the wall, and say "I've seen that 5 times outside this shop... lets redesign it." I work with the tattoo artist to make it something real and personal to not only me, but an original work for him as well. A tattoo artist who sits on his bench and does the same tattoos out of the books day in, day out gets bored with life... but when they guys like us walk in and say "I want THIS" and bring in our own drawings, thats when good artists truly shine...

    No sir, tattooing is not masochistic... it is a way for us true artists to really show our potential, and to have that piece of art on display for the rest of our lives. I didn't get any of my tattoos to be "cool", though I do have one unoriginal PoS Flash tattoo that i will soon be altering or covering entirely... it is simply, an Old English "USMC". Some will probably tell me I'm a moron for getting it, others will say I'm an asshole for removing it... but I know its there, and anyone who needs to know, knows its there... so if it is covered or changed in a way to make it original, I won't feel bad about it.

    I also noticed you have tribal on your back, but celtic on your ankle. This is the only thing I don't like about your tattoos. If you plan to get more, and I think you do, staying with a particular theme shows more of your personality in the art itself. I took a dragon off the wall at the shop where I used to draw, and said this would look cool as a broken arm band. I redesigned it, re-knotted the celtic knots, and put it to ink. I took the symbol for Cancer and made the ends of it knot around each other until I had a full celtic crab, with connected knotted legs and claws to boot. I found a celtic circle in a book, changed the knots, added a cross, and had it put to ink. My namesake on this board and others came not from where I live, but from the giant celtic phoenix on my back... 3 hours of black ink, no shading, and red/orange flame... except for the tongue of the dragon arm band, it is the only thing I have with any noticable color...

    Needless to say, I went through a whole pack of cigarettes the day I got the "phoenix rising from the asses" as my dad likes to say... but I'll never get sick of trying to look at it in the mirror. it's part of me because I made it... no one will ever have anything like it, though at least 2 of my friends subsequently got "Off-the-wall" knockoffs of it on their backs and now think they are cool because of it. I've drawn on people who waited in line to get inked at Doc's Tattoo in Havre de Grace, MD (shamless plug) and they came back wanting more when they were done... I'm not bragging, I'm just telling it like it is... if I had the money, the time, and the patience to sit with a needle in someone's skin, I'd be famous. I would have started an apprenticeship 4 years ago, but I was in the Marines and had no time for it. Now I have a family... and other things have taken over my life. I suppose I will draw maybe one or two more pieces for myself in the next few years, and then I'll be done... actually, I need to get part of the dragon arm band finished with my cousin's DoB and DoD...

    I know two things about all my ink... it's all 100% original and uncopied anywhere in the world... and I'll never feel any regret for getting any of it.
     
  20. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Thats cool, I truly try to perpetuate art with my tattoos now. My ribs and thigh are both predone pieces. I've seen one other person with the piece on my ribs, didn't make me happy but I love it, the work is awesome and I just love the piece so I could care less. My thigh I've never seen anywhere else. Its kind of an experiment. My main artist is an apprentice and a very good friend of mine so I let her do a fine line piece on my thigh. Its the first of such detail shes done and its been great practice for her(I must says hes doing very well so far). The back... I think of it as celtic. The larger piece came out of a celtic book. Yes I know, the colors and sharp edges it might as well be tribal but I just don't like tribal so I call it celtic or a mix. Notice the intersecting sections and lines and such. My back.... thats my young "mistake" I guess. I still love it but I hate myself for using such a large piece of "canvas" for that piece. I can't exactly through a fineline war scene at the bottom of my back with that up above. Unless I try turning the piece into something like the sun or whatever looking over the scene. Its been thought about. The calf is going to be a celtic half sleeve. That was another mistake I guess. I did my back and calf before I realized the art of fine line work. After my half sleeve is done I doubt I will ever get tattooed with anything over a 3 needle again :D Sadly the piece on my calf is a flash piece. THe larger piece on my back is as well, but my artist and I changed it up a good bit. It still "looks" like the same piece but it really isn't. The band on my calf was changed up to fit me and my love of knotwork a little better. The rest of my calf is going to be, one more zoomporhic, thor's hammer, and a LOT LOT!! of custom one off knot work. I really want to get some of Tshy's art tattooed on myself. Its very similar to say my ribs or my thigh but its custom because its done by the one I love and its not really out there. Amazingly we actually found somoene who has one of her pieces tattooed on them(in a tattoo magazine). I was shocked to see it. They ruined it a bit by throwing there own style in it. Good for them but the original is far better :D Yeah if you look at my site I have a picture of the other person I've seen with my rib tattoo. I think mine makes theres look almost crappy so :p:
     

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