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Paint Guns

Discussion in 'The Tool Shed' started by tiger9297, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    I have had some Binks guns in the past. My dad bought them back in the 80's and at that time they were around $400. Unfortunately some jerk stole mine. Anyway, the other day I saw a Craftsman Gun for around $150. I was wondering with improvements in technology and all, would this Craftsman gun be comparable to a Binks made 20 years ago? I want to buy another gun but the price of a Binks is way up there. Opinions???
     
  2. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    God, i remember when Binks #7's and Devilbiss JGA's ran $150... like ya said, high-end stuff runs 300 to 500 these days... Tho i own like 9 guns, i really want a SATA... anyway,

    If your willing to spend $150, I would much rather go with something like this Devilbiss than a Crapsmen... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DeVI...621921897QQcategoryZ43987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    heck, i'd rather buy a Sharpe than a Crapsmen http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHAR...622569273QQcategoryZ43987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
     
  3. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    Yea I've looked at the SATA guns.....:eek1: :shame: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  4. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    i know, scary... :haha:

    any questions on guns, give me a holla....Think i've probably sprayed about 84 million gallons of paint and gel... :doah: :haha:
     
  5. LVJimmy

    LVJimmy 1/2 ton status

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    What gun would you suggest for the first time painter who just wants to paint their own truck?
     
  6. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    well, any of the guns i listed are fine....

    something like this Sharpe would do you ok too...

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SHAR...623711627QQcategoryZ43987QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    I would try to stick with one of the big 3 companies, Binks, Devilbiss or Sharpe. Sharpe generally being the cheapest of the bunch...

    The biggest issue lies in rebuildability... Generally anything under $75 or so will have limitations in its disassembly, cleaning and parts availability.. In other words, you can buy a $35 gravity feed, no name gun and it will spray pretty darn good, sometimes not quite the proper atomization you would get from a high-end gun, but for the average guy, do a decent job for at least a few jobs, but they will get "filmed" up in areas that can't be cleaned properly. Whereas a higher end gun you are able to fully disassemble and clean properly...

    $35 guns tend to have cheapie parts to them too... plastic stuff that may not react well to lacquer thinner, cleaning, etc...

    tip and cap size play an important roll in different applications too.. Think the one i listed has a 1.4 setup, which is a good overall size that can spray many products decently...
     
  7. LVJimmy

    LVJimmy 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for the help. I plan on preping mine for paint next month.
     
  8. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    anytime... If you have any questions when the time comes, shoot me a PM... :D
     
  9. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    ryoken,

    I have a question that may benefit others as well. My truck has been painted twice. Once b/c of oxidation and the second time b/c a tree limb fell and dented the hood. I would like to do a complete repaint. Being a pilot and fooling with airplanes I know they almost always strip a plane before painting. I would like to strip my truck to get the best possible paint job (mine is a "show" truck and not a "wheeler"). Anyway, since I don't plan to do a "frame-off" would you strip this truck and if so how?
     
  10. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    If it has that much paint on it, i'd get it to factory prime at least. You probably read my post on paint thickness, mils, etc and potential failures...

    the 3 trains of thought for stripping are mechanical, chemical and mediablasting...

    generally these days, I go mechanical for a strip job. mainly because i'm lazy. Plus you can control at what layer you stop easier than a stripper.. With a highend DA paper like 3M gold in a burly 60 grit, you can do some real damage.. you can generally strip a blazer in 1/2 a day depending on whats on it..

    Some folks prefer a chemical stripper... Couple things to be aware of tho... Tho i've never had a prob with it, removing all residue has been an issue for some with later topcoat failures... I've always found that if neutralized properly, it's not an issue.. You have to DA it thoroughly after anyway, so that also helps avoid these issues unless your DAing stripper "into" the metal..

    another prob with stripper is it CAN take longer in the end, not always but sometimes. By the time you carefully apply to avoid rubber, plastic, etc, then wait, then scrape, maybe reapply, scrape, neutralize, and sand, you could have stripped it twice with a DA. One advantage is less dust, but you make up for it with piles of goo.

    Another point to be made about strippers is, depending on what coatings are on the truck, sometimes it'll only go down so far thru the layers.. On many occasions I've seen it tear up factory paint and not touch the underlying primer. thus, more sanding... THE best stripper I've ever seen bar none, is Aircraft Stripper brand. square gallon containers, and all the obvious safety precautions should be taken, gloves, etc...

    And obviously you have media blasting, from walnut shells to plastic media, etc... and I'm sure you can imagine the issues there... A much better option when the truck is disassembled..

    Back in the day of restoing cars and trucks, alot of the time we would stripper it and scrape thoroughly, take a power washer to it, then come in the next day and DA the heck out of it... You really need to get all gooey paint off with the washer tho, that stuff will stay soft for days and immediately clog DA paper if you hit it... It was probably easier than DAing it all off, but like i said, I'm lazy these days...

    If you do decide to go with a straight mechanical, which is what i would suggest so you can determine how the different layers are and how deep you want to go, i can't emphasize how much quicker it'll go with a quality paper and a DA that can keep up.. We've found that that 60 gold cuts way faster than even a gnarlier 36 grit. then obviously you need to run over that bare steel or factory primer with some 180 to 220 to bring the scratches up to a reasonable grit for priming...
     
  11. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    Thanks for the info. I have seen numerous airplanes stripped and then watched about 8 guys with brass wire brushes go over every rivet. :doah: NOT fun. I think the DA may be the way out. I definitely may pick your brain some more as this gets closer. Electric or Pneumatic? Brands?
     
  12. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    haha, I've actually done 2 planes and I feel their pain... :haha:

    as far as DA's go... tough call for me on that one.. Air is what most will use and what I used for years.. advantage, they can be had on the cheap... con, need a healthy compressor to keep up and really keep it cranking.... little noisy too (shoooters muffs are a bodyguys best friend :haha: )

    personally, i've been using a Porter Cable electric for about 15 yrs now.. It's pretty much the standard in the marine biz... For electric the PC is pretty much the only one to consider, not too many other brands anyway...

    advantages, quieter, can run almost as hard as a DA at real high air without the hassle of hose and an air compressor screaming all day...

    cons, cost, they run about $150.. for as much DAing as i do its worth it, but for someone with air a $30 to $60 air unit is probably the better way to go...
     
  13. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    Sata guns are very nice, my dad has 3 of them in the garage. he's got a couple Binks guns he likes too.
     
  14. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    SATA's are the ch*t these days apparently... my paint supplier has been pushing them on me for a couple years now.. i've looked at em, held em, etc, honestly i'm not sure what the fuss is about, they appear to be sweet but not nescessarily any sweeter than a highend devilbiss or binks as far as looking at them.. but i'll believe the hype for now and assume they spray excellent from what i've been hearing... think Jerry has used em and said they spray sweet..

    i grew up a loyal devilbiss guy but have also owned numerous binks too.. binks biggest issue has usually been weight.. their best gun for years was their #7 model, very nice gun, i own one and use it frequently. but for anyone that was used to a Devilbiss jga or mbc, they are kinda big and awkward, take a little getting used to, but spray great otherwise..
     
  15. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    You have to watch with any stripping method. Media blast and mechanical can warp panels, and with chemical, you HAVE to go to metal since it will always contaminate the layers of paint that remain. I've done small media blasting jobs, whole cars with DAs (slow back breaking work), and 2 chemical strips to bare metal or fiberglass (one was a Corvette with 7 paint jobs).

    I never liked the Binks at all, never understood all the hype. I always sprayed a JGA and still have my “best” gun along with caps-n-tips for base/clear, single, and primers. And "Craftsman" used to be a relabled JGA with a cheaper handle, but otherwise identical.
     
  16. tiger9297

    tiger9297 1/2 ton status

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    I think ryoken was saying that if you use a good DA with the right paper it can take alot of the work out of stripping a car. Also, by the time you go through all of the steps of say chemical stripping you could strip one with a DA in less time. I don't mean to take words out of his mouth, that's just what I got from his posts.
     
  17. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    I agree. But as usual, "it depends". On many vehicles you have to watch broad "low crown" areas when working a DA. You can easily put enough heat into the panel to warp it significantly, then you've really got troubles. The GM hood and door panels are perfect examples. If you're hogging through 3+ paint jobs, you can easily screw it up. And depending on the type of paint, you may want to use different disks.

    If I were doing a classic (like I did my old 66 GTO and 39 Chevy), I would probably use a fairly coarse disk on the DA and not try to finish a flat panel all at once, move around. Take it all the way to the metal, then spray it with self-etching primer, followed by sandable urethane high-solids primer (the beige stuff **NOT** lacquer primer!). Then hand block the entire vehicle with 400, then 600 wet, reprime if needed to get it right and flat. Start with hard blocks and then switch to soft blocks made for final wet sanding. Finally, move to top coat using the system you select, and it's always best not to mix systems. SW was my favorite, followed closely by PPG (I preferred SW for base/clears, and PPG for singles). I did a 66 Chevy SWB in Ultra Black (IIRC, a “green black” used on Maximas, it’s the blackest black I ever saw) like this that looked like a show car.

    But if there is only one or two paint jobs that are holding up well, there is no way I would strip it. In most cases, the best base for painting is the existing paint.
     
  18. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Oh, and I had a Binks #7. I hated that gun, but it did make a good primer gun. Sat around the shop, covered in primer splashes and loaded with "ready to go" lacquer primer used for topping body filler and light guide coats when needed. Otherwise, I always used my JGAs for anything I wanted “right”. Tried HVLP but I just couldn't get the finish I wanted with an HVLP. I don't even know what a SATA is, other than on my HD. :D
     
  19. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    I'm not exactly sure what was incorrect about my post...

    I knew he wouldn't media blast it, thus why i barely mentioned it and didn't get into warpage issues...

    As far as DA's warping panels, never seen such a thing and i've stripped probably 50 cars minimum that way... Knowing how to run tools properly is always important... I've done strips on 100 degree days and never seen that much heat generated.. Sure, it's possible to dent a panel with a DA if your laying into an area without any nearby body lines, but I've never seen a panel too hot to touch.....

    I grew up a Devilbiss devotee, but Binks #7 are ok, like i said big and bulky, but they spray alright... JGA's are a great overall gun and spray bueatiful on a pressure pot system, my sentimental fave. But for an overall refinish from a syphon cup, it doesn't hold a candle to a MBC model...
     
  20. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Sorry, my response wasn't intended to disagree at all, but just to offer my thoughts.

    As for DA warpage, I've seen it personally. Long ago (around 87?) I was doing a classic Mercedes hood (they have practically no support underneath) in a hurry. Didn't realize it till the paint was on, but it had some light waves that were not apparent earlier and seemed consistent with my DA work, so I assumed I put them there, and it was pure hell to fix. Since then I've been very careful of large expanses and heavy DA cutting (like for stripping a panel).
     

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