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Passengers take profiling into their own hands

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by gjk5, Aug 23, 2006.

  1. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Mutiny as passengers refuse to fly until Asians are removed

    Passengers refuse to allow holiday jet to take off until two Asian men are thrown off plane


    By CHRISTOPHER LEAKE and ANDREW CHAPMAN 12:08pm 20th August 2006
    British holidaymakers staged an unprecedented mutiny - refusing to allow their flight to take off until two men they feared were terrorists were forcibly removed.


    The extraordinary scenes happened after some of the 150 passengers on a Malaga-Manchester flight overheard two men of Asian appearance apparently talking Arabic. Passengers told cabin crew they feared for their safety and demanded police action. Some stormed off the Monarch Airlines Airbus A320 minutes before it was due to leave the Costa del Sol at 3am. Others waiting for Flight ZB 613 in the departure lounge refused to board it.


    The trouble in Malaga flared last Wednesday as two British citizens in their 20s waited in the departure lounge to board the pre-dawn flight and were heard talking what passengers took to be Arabic. Worries spread after a female passenger said she had heard something that alarmed her.
    Passengers noticed that, despite the heat, the pair were wearing leather jackets and thick jumpers and were regularly checking their watches.
    Initially, six passengers refused to board the flight. On board the aircraft, word reached one family. To the astonishment of cabin crew, they stood up and walked off, followed quickly by others.
    The Monarch pilot - a highly experienced captain - accompanied by armed Civil Guard police and airport security staff, approached the two men and took their passports. Half an hour later, police returned and escorted the two Asian passengers off the jet.

    entire article:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=401419&in_page_id=1770



    Thoughts? Comments?


    I'm a little torn on this one myself. On the one hand this alarmist crap doesn't help anyone but on the other at least these people actually took some initiative and weren't just complacent to what they thought was a bad situation.



    Discuss.
     
  2. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    Normally I'm not one to encourage people to be vigilantes. Sometimes no matter how well intended, regular folks can step in it pretty good. However, when it comes to flying, I don't have a problem with people refusing to fly or walking off. Had they grabbed the guys and beat them senseless without truly knowing what they were about, that would be over the top. Refusing to fly is probably a reasonable response though.
     
  3. beater_k20

    beater_k20 Banned

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    honestly, if the guys were cool, the security forces would have told the other passengers so. since they were removed from the plane, something was up.
     
  4. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    outside of El Al, airplane authorities don't want to do their job badly enough. Its great that the citizenry then, took matters into their own hands. I don't really see a downside here... its not like they saw a couple of people with dark skin and refused to fly with them. They saw 2 young men, wearing very unusually heavy clothing for the local climate.. talking in a foriegn tongue... checking their watches a lot etc etc. These are signs that would certainly raise suspicion to your average passanger and should have concerned the crew / security personell also. Personally, I'd rather be called a rascist (though untrue) than be called a terrorist-attack victim.

    j
     
  5. BoondocK5

    BoondocK5 1 ton status Author

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    Exactamundo!:eek1:
     
  6. SkulzNBonz

    SkulzNBonz 1/2 ton status

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    The passengers seemed to be onto something.

    John
     
  7. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Agreed.



    I think as a whole the situation could have been handled better. I think the ideal situation would have been for the passengers to state their concerns earlier and have the airline more thoroughly screen the guys.

    Overall I have no problem with it though. I did read a follow up article linked in this one complaining about their "rights" and how they were treated based on the color of their skin. Whatever. It wasn't the skin color, it was the likelyhood of religious affiliation combined with squirrely behavior. In addition, I don't feel that air travel is a "right" I think it is a privelige provided by the airlines which are private companies. If they want to kick you off the plane just 'cause they think you're a jackass, then they should (and do, especially if you are not from a "protected" class of citizenry).
     
  8. Skigirl

    Skigirl 1/2 ton status

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    I would've walked off too if they had boarded after I told security of my concern (which I would have done without hesitation). I'd walk off a plane if I thought anything was weird - like missing rivits on wings or a pilot that didn't look right.

    I think it's my responsibility to take care of myself to the best of my ability and not leave the perception of harm or danger, or the solutions to it, to others whose skills and perception are questionable. Especially on a plane where there is no escape.
     
  9. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Are you really a vigilante if all you do is refuse to fly on the same plane? They didn't harm the people they suspected as terrorists. They just left. If I thought that there was anything suspicious on a plane, I would leave too. Better safe than sorry.
     
  10. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Its is worth noting here that there is a good amount of evidence that Al Queda trains its operatives to scream "racism!!!" / "religous prosecution!" / "I want my lawyer, I have rights!" when busted. Its a wise move on their part, because the liberals here and in Europe are suckers for that crap. They fall for it every time. Remember when the "Buffalo 6" got busted? All kinds of calls about protecting their rights and how they were being jailed just because they were Muslims. Not long after that, the groups leader was killed in a predator drone strike in Yemen... riding with the #1 Al Queda guy in that country...

    j
     
  11. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    I disagree. I am pretty familiar with the inner workings of an international airport. You have a broad variety of competing interests when it comes to who flies and who does not. You have the airlines, which are in the business of making money. You have the TSA, which is in the business of preventing crooks from getting on the plane and smuggling items, or causing a crash. You have the airport which is locally owned by a municipality or county and in the business of making money and providing a service. You have the local cops who just want to keep the peace. You have the air marshalls who want to keep a plane from going in like a lawn dart and finally, the ultimate say of who flies on a plane eventually falls to the captain. If he says yes, the person has permission to fly unless the local cops or FBI pull them off. If the pilot says no, no amount of permission from anybody changes that.

    If a whole bunch of passengers throw a fit based upon a couple of other passengers, each group will have a different perspective. However, the commonality will be "the most for the most". In other words, the airline and the airport don't want to lose business. Thusly, they evaluate what is more important, a whole planeload of passengers refusing to fly and demanding a refund, or two guys displaced and put on another flight. The cops just want people to behave until they are out of their jurisdiction so absent an actual crime, they will do what it takes to keep the masses happy. The air marshalls are going to keep completely out of it so as not to blow their cover unless they absolutely have to, and the TSA is going to re-screen them, but then butt out because that is the scope of their responsibility. The only entity that might interject themselves more deeply in the situation is if somebody from the FBI Joint Terrorist Task Force (JTTF) shows up because the TSA or local cops dropped a dime. In fact, this happens quite often. There are certain names on a flag list that when they check in, they are held for more intensive screening. A smaller percentage of those name generates a call to the FBI for a face to face greeting to find out if they are somebody wanted. During the time the person(s) are being further investigated, the plane is allowed to travel on. If the detention turns out to be unwarranted, the airlines put them on the next flight, sometimes in first class if they cry enough.

    So, the fact that these guys were pulled from the plane may have had nothing to do at all with who they ultimately turned out to be. It was the best thing to do for all involved because it satisfied all of the groups concerns. The pilot may well have decided that he didn't want a plane full of paranoid panicky passengers just itching to jump these guys at the slightest provocation even if they were completely innocent. The airlines no doubt threw them a couple of bones to keep them from whining too loud, although I'm sure they will anyway. The true measure of whether or not these guys were actually dirty will be if they hire a lawyer and go for compensation. A terrorist, terrorist accomplice, or sympathizer is going to snivel loudly, then fade quickly into the woodwork........
     
  12. MattK

    MattK 1/2 ton status

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    friggin right, desert rat! very well put.
     
  13. Jagged

    Jagged 1 ton status

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    Depending on the location... missing rivets are fine ;) You ever seen speed-tape on a wing before (looks almost like duct tape.. the shiny stuff)?
     
  14. Desert Rat

    Desert Rat Fetch the comfy chair

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    True story. We are flying back to California from Cancun on Mexicana Airlines. The pilot comes over the intercom and says "We may be making an unscheduled landing in Calexico to take on more fuel". The missus and I look at each other with mouths agape. They didn't put enough fuel in the tank when we took off from Cancun? Then about an hour later, the pilot comes on again and says "Ok folks, looks like we won't be landing after all. We are going to try and make it to LAX without stopping". Try and make it? Needless to say, that was the last time I flew on Mexicana. Then years later I find out from the mechanics at the airport that Mexicana never pays one thin dime for any repairs while in the U.S. and waits until they can get back home to pay somebody they picked up in a truck at Home Depot to conduct the repairs no matter how badly they need it in flight. I will say that standing at customs and watching the parade from Mexico on the Mexicana flights is very entertaining however......
     
  15. cbbr

    cbbr 1 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    I got on a small regional jet once that had more patch plates than original skin. fortunately I was drinking heavily by the time we borded......
     

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