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Patriot Act Good Idea or Not?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by offroadcowboy, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. offroadcowboy

    offroadcowboy 1/2 ton status

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    Just curious what the thoughts were on The Patriot Act.I would especially like to hear from those in Law Enforcment. Is it keeping Americans safe or is it an infringment on our rights as guaranteed by the constitution? Another question might be Should the U.S.Get out of the U.N.? Gentlemen start your engines. /forums/images/graemlins/k5.gif
     
  2. Bubba Ray Boudreaux

    Bubba Ray Boudreaux 1 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Just curious what the thoughts were on The Patriot Act.I would especially like to hear from those in Law Enforcment. Is it keeping Americans safe or is it an infringment on our rights as guaranteed by the constitution? Another question might be Should the U.S.Get out of the U.N.? Gentlemen start your engines.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Patriot Act-Haven't seen the so-called bad that a lot of people have claimed it will cause. I really have to read the thing to get the full idea behind it, but from what I know so far, I'm borderline.

    U.N.-There needs to be a tanker truck full of ass whupped opened up on those tards.................
     
  3. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    1) havent seen any negative effect from the patriot act. Im sure there are a few parts of it that could be abused... and I wouldnt mind doin a little line-item-veto work on it, but IMO its better to have it all than none at all. we dont need no stinkin 9-11 part 2.

    2) [darn] the UN, tell em their lease is up and move the thing to Paris where it belongs.

    j
     
  4. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    1) havent seen any negative effect from the patriot act. Im sure there are a few parts of it that could be abused... and I wouldnt mind doin a little line-item-veto work on it, but IMO its better to have it all than none at all. we dont need no stinkin 9-11 part 2.

    2) [darn] the UN, tell em their lease is up and move the thing to Paris where it belongs.

    /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif Exactly what I was thinking, the (darn) UN has done nothing but hamper the efforts of the few countries willing to stand up to tyranny
    on this little Island we all call home. It's like one of my favorite songs (Dave Mustaine and company) "Peace sells...But who's buying?" sometimes, a little FOOT TO A$$ must be done to establish a lasting peace!! /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/usaflag.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif
     
  5. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    The South Carolina U.S. District Attorney came and gave a very interesting presentation to my Criminal Law and intro to Criminal Justice class at the end of the semester.

    The U niting and S trengthening A merica by P roviding A ppropriate T ools R equired to I ntercept and O bstruct T errorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) does give a little extra leway in some areas from what i remember, but it also increases the ability of those in charge of protecting us to do their job more effectively. It also protects us and those who would be more likely to be targeted (i.e. Arab's Muslim's etc.) some parts of the act COULD make it to where a person in power could abuse these extra abilities this act provides them with but there are specific parts of the bill which protect the average person from being the subject of the possible abuse. Yes it may infringe a very slight amount on our 'rights' but i would gladly be protected and have to risk a little less privacy etc. so that those that i love would be safe.

    just my $0.02

    oh yeah and the U.N. is becoming a joke very quickly and i think america should get out as soon as psiible.
     
  6. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    its fine with me i got nothing to hide, if it helps catch those bastards im all for it
     
  7. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    One of the things that makes me nervous is that the Patriot ACT gave the President of the United States power to suspend elections, in case of terrorist attack. If the polls show that Bush is losing this years presidential election, what do think the chances are of a terrorist attack coming right at that time?
     
  8. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    Not completely sure you may be 100% correct 1-ton but if i remember correctly the pres. has that power only after either a 50% or 75% approval by Congress there is a lot of stuff in the act though and i may be mixing some of it up
     
  9. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    [ QUOTE ]
    If the polls show that Bush is losing this years presidential election, what do think the chances are of a terrorist attack coming right at that time?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well, i really doubt any pres would use it to save themselves from election... even bill klinton. I mean really, if the truth about why they got suspended ever leaked out the guy would be impeached in a week. Pretty big risk, especially considering that other people in the Bush family have national political aspirations. One conspiracy like that and the whole family would be done.

    j
     
  10. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    also i'm pretty sure that staging a terrorist attack would be a treasonist act under the constitution and treason gets the death penalty.
     
  11. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    It is pretty hard to prove treason against people with power. They will just find some poor sucker to take the fall for them. I remember when President Carter made it illegal to sell or give arms to Iran. Selling or giving arms to an American enemy is considered treason, but it did not stop Reagan from giving arms to Iran in trade for the American hostages. After he got caught, he just got Oliver North to take the fall for him. It is not to say what Reagan did was entirely bad because it probably avoided war with Iran.

    I am not saying Bush would stage a terrorist attack because it is a far fetched idea, but if you did some background research on Bush and Cheney's business deals in the past you would find that they are low down skunks, on the same order as Enron's Kenneth Lay, Worldcom's Bernard Ebbers, or Tyco's Dennis Kozlowski. Bush and Cheney would fleece you for your money faster than they can say, "shred everything".

    I consider myself a conservative, but nobody is going pee on my leg and tell me it is raining, or tell me that the moon is just the sun at night. The types of Republicans I respect are people like Bob Dole, Colon Powell, John McCain, or even Donald Rumsfeld, but Bush and Cheney are not honorable people. Just ask a guy by the name of Scott Van Dyke, who won a $70 Million lawsuit against the Halliburton Corporation, about Cheney's character.
     
  12. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    i thought we were talkin about the Patriot Act not Bush? /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif

    you are a post hijacker. /forums/images/graemlins/whistling.gif




    /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif


    sorry but with your other post i had to bust your balls a little but i'm just messin with ya /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif


    *edit*
    you do bring up some good points though. /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  13. 1-ton

    1-ton 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    I am taking this post and crashing it into the nearest building. /forums/images/graemlins/woot.gif

    Praise Allah!! 72 virgins await me in heaven! /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     
  14. bigcountryk5

    bigcountryk5 1/2 ton status

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    /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     
  15. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety'" - Benjamin Franklin
     
  16. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety'" - Benjamin Franklin

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Spare me. That quote has been bandied about way too much in the last couple of years. Hey, Ben Franklin was a great guy but the world is a different place than it was 200 years ago.

    I have yet to see a normal citizen's rights be trampled by the Patriot Act, sure some people have been delayed at the airport, so what? As far as inconveniencing people visiting our country, who cares? I am OK with some delays when I travel, and as far as I'm concerned if you have nothing to hide, what's the big deal?
     
  17. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    I just don't buy that. The world may be a different place, but that doesn't mean that I should have fewer freedoms than people had 200 years ago. Maybe something else needs to change so US citizens can enjoy the freedoms that we're garaunteed in our constitution. The government is slowly taking them away from us, and I'm not talking about Bush, just about Government in general.
     
  18. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    I absolutely agree with you on the runaway governmental powers, it is unfortunate that we have let our politicians put is in that position. I feel that the true reason that we are put in such a defensive postion as a society is obviously our role in international politics, we have seriously pissed off some people. All this began in WWI with our involvement there, after WWII we then helped form the abomination that is the United Nations, which has caused more problems than any governmental body in history. That being said; the central idea of the UN is for the betterment of the whole planet and eventual UNIFORMITY of society and government, which goes against all that makes the US the US. We have spent the better part of a century helping people that didn't want to be helped or didn't appreciate it, or just generally sticking our noses where it didn't belong. This country would be best served by a leader that can look at it as a business, if we do not stand to gain anything by entering a conflict, why get involved? I know it's callous but I really don't care about some poor ignoramus' plight over in ___________ (insert country here), we would do well to deal with our own problems before taking on those of the world at large.

    In short I agreee, we SHOULDN'T have less freedoms than we did 200 years ago, but in an ideal world, yada, yada, yada....

    200 years ago there was no income tax, there were no gun laws (except for slaves), there were no drug laws (you could do as you wished with your body as long as it hurt no one else), you did not need a license to drive a carriage or wagon, and you could go find some gullible natives and trade them a necklace for an island, no deeds or title companies. Hell, you could beat your wife's ass and the neighbor may have come and joined you. I'm sure if you asked old Ben he would feel that quite a few of these were freedoms not to be trifled with. I am also pretty sure that he and the rest of our founding fathers would reconsider their opinions on freedom and security after told of the attack on our soil at the cost of 3,000 lives.

    I am also pretty sure they would be perplexed by the reaction to the "torture" at Abu Ghraib prison, they are prisoners of war after all.


    Anyway, enough of my rant. Given a choice I would choose no terrorists and no Patriot Act, unfortunately that's not an option. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  19. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    Wow, it's interesting how in reading your post, it seems like you would be completely against the Patriot Act, but then in the end you support it. It sounds like you've given up or something.

    People are saying that the Patriot Act gives some powers to governemtn that maybe they shouldn't have, like "Oh, I doubt that any president would use it to save themselves in an election" or whatever. That's scary that anyone trusts ANY government that much.

    The Patriot Act puts many laws in place that are essentially all that's needed for Martial Law to be declared, and at that point you can kiss all of your freedoms goodbye. It may not happen today, tomorrow or ever, but it shouldn't even be possible in the letter of the law.
     
  20. gjk5

    gjk5 3/4 ton status

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    Again, I agree with you. As I stated closing my post, I wish there were no need for the Act, but there is. I am completely against it, I just don't see an alternative. Have I lost something? Yes. So have you. But a bunch of scumbags on a plane took it a way from me, not my country.

    Not to repeat myself but, the Gov. shouldn't have those powers in an ideal world, but as I said.......

    And anyone who thinks these powers will not be used is an idiot, I DO NOT TRUST THE GOVERNMENT. But again, it's better than the alternative.

    At some point we may NEED to instate Martial Law to fix this country, and I do not think that normal citizens will be the ones giving things up. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but do you remember back in WWII they had internment camps for Germans and Japanese? Do you think this was uncomfortable for them? I'm positive it was, but the MAJORITY of this country felt better because of it. I am sick and tired of letting vocal minorities decide everything in this country. If you are a Muslim, especially if you are dressed in ethnic Muslim attire you SHOULD be treated differently by LEO's and at the airport, we were not attacked by Swedish grannies. If you are not a citizen I don't give one nugget of sh*t how you feel about it either.

    Again to recap:

    Barring the targeting of America by Muslim extremists, no, there is no reason for the Patriot Act. Unfortunately we cannot just sit on our asses and hope that none of these guys slips in, utilizes our training facilitites, and kills a boatload of our citizens.........again.
     

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