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Please check out my plans and tell me how stupid I am and for what reasons!

Discussion in 'Audio' started by afroman006, Jun 21, 2003.

  1. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Here is a little drawing of what I want to do in my burban. I havent bought anything yet so everything is still up in the air. If you can see any flaws or dumb things or have any better ideas for component locations, please let me know. Thx [​IMG]
     
  2. rampage

    rampage 1/2 ton status

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    Instead of having the 4x10s in back of the rear seat, I would put them in front of the rear seat for better sound. That way the rear seat doesn't block the sound. Also, the 6x9 with the sub in the back is not a good location. You will end up damaging the speaker from the air pressure of the sub. What's the reason for this speaker? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  3. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    The sub would have a seperate box from the 6x9 then they would both be inside the tire looking thing. I just thought I'd put it in because I have it I really dont want to bother with moving the speakers, as a non-stock location usually looks shitty IMO.
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Well, a couple of obvious ones:

    1. 3.5" speakers (in dash?) is NOT going to get the job done up front. There is a lot of music between what a 3.5" can produce, and the subs you are blending them with.... You are going to need to put a 5.25" or 6" type speaker up front to blend with the subs in a believable way. If possible, I would ditch the dash mounted speakers altogether....bouncing sound off glass is a lousy technique from a sound-quality perspective.

    2. Two different sized subs. That will be a tricky one... I'm not sure what the objective is with the console mounted one. It's certainly going to be a lot of work to get it integrated, and there's no WAY it will provide SPL the way that 15" will. The 15 has 3X the cone area of an 8" driver, so odds are good that the 15" will simply drown it out anyway. It "might" help to bridge the gap between the 3.5" speakers and the 15", but it's going to PULL the vocals and other sounds off the dash and between the seats in a very unnatural way.


    If it were me, I'd simplify:

    6" coaxes in the front doors (or kickpanels if you feel like spending the time and $$$), maybe some of those kind where the tweeter can be "aimed" up towards your ears....that'd be nice.

    Keep the 4x10 size in the rear (it's for fill anyway) there aren't many speaker choices in that size, but again it's a minor effect in the overall system anyway. Save your money for something else.

    Ditch the console mounted sub...it's not adding much to the equation except cost and time. Add another 15" in the back if you want, and move the amps to the console area, or suspend them underneath the seats.

    Ditch the 6x9 speaker....adds nothing, and wastes an amplifier channel too.....

    If you want the rear seat passengers to have a decent sonic experience, maybe give them a set of those same front door-mounted speakers in their doors too.
     
  5. 4GUNZ4X4Z

    4GUNZ4X4Z 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    1. 3.5" speakers (in dash?) is NOT going to get the job done up front. There is a lot of music between what a 3.5" can produce, and the subs you are blending them with.... You are going to need to put a 5.25" or 6" type speaker up front to blend with the subs in a believable way. If possible, I would ditch the dash mounted speakers altogether....bouncing sound off glass is a lousy technique from a sound-quality perspective.


    [/ QUOTE ] There is nothing wrong with installing 3.5's in the dash. If you do make sure to push em with some beef.
    [ QUOTE ]
    2. Two different sized subs. That will be a tricky one

    [/ QUOTE ] Not really tricky, but if you are going to run an 8 or 10" sub with a 15" I would only use a band pass box that way you can get the Hz you want dialed in to fill the gap of the 15". IMHO I would only run the 15" and ditch the idea of the 8 or 10 sub in the console. Now if you can move the 15" into the console that would definitly kick ass. With depth of the Suburban and the 15" that far back... oh yeah I can feel it now, but if you plan on having passengers then I'd probably mount it behind the back seat. Absolutely DO NOT direct your 15 to the side. It will kill the Dbs and the potential of the 15".

    I would also ditch the 6x9 and the 4x10" and go with a set of component's or something like a mid inside each door and tweeters in the dash.
     
  6. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    1. 3.5" speakers (in dash?) is NOT going to get the job done up front. There is a lot of music between what a 3.5" can produce, and the subs you are blending them with.... You are going to need to put a 5.25" or 6" type speaker up front to blend with the subs in a believable way. If possible, I would ditch the dash mounted speakers altogether....bouncing sound off glass is a lousy technique from a sound-quality perspective.


    [/ QUOTE ] There is nothing wrong with installing 3.5's in the dash. If you do make sure to push em with some beef.
    [ QUOTE ]
    2. Two different sized subs. That will be a tricky one

    [/ QUOTE ] Not really tricky, but if you are going to run an 8 or 10" sub with a 15" I would only use a band pass box that way you can get the Hz you want dialed in to fill the gap of the 15". IMHO I would only run the 15" and ditch the idea of the 8 or 10 sub in the console. Now if you can move the 15" into the console that would definitly kick ass. With depth of the Suburban and the 15" that far back... oh yeah I can feel it now, but if you plan on having passengers then I'd probably mount it behind the back seat. Absolutely DO NOT direct your 15 to the side. It will kill the Dbs and the potential of the 15".

    I would also ditch the 6x9 and the 4x10" and go with a set of component's or something like a mid inside each door and tweeters in the dash.

    [/ QUOTE ]



    Put as much BEEF as you want behind a 3.5" speaker, it's not going to play low enough (or loud enough) to integrate well with subs that should be rolled off by 80Hz. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif


    I'll open up another can of worms here:

    In a vehicle (even something as large as a Suburban) there isn't enough room for the type of "standing wave" effect that you're hinting at in your discussion of the placement of the 15" driver. Are you aware that the wavelength of a 20Hz note is over 56 FEET LONG???!!! The location in the interior of a vehicle is too limited (no matter WHERE it's located) to have a meaninful effect on a wavelength that long.....


    It's obvious from your comments (and from your "20KW Stereo" post) that you're an SPL guy....and it is probaly equally obvious by now that I am NOT. Perhaps before we spend too much time designing this Robert's system, he could tell us what HIS objectives are???? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
     
  7. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Well I cant imagine cramming a 15" sub between the two front seats. I designed the system this way because I didnt want to sacrifice any cargo space as I haul big stuff alot in the back. It had the set of Polk 6x9's mounted on the front doors when I got it and they looked like crap. I really want to keep a hidden, somewhat stock look so my stuff doesnt get stolen. I saw Greg's sub mounts in another post and was wondering if something like that could be incorporated into a burb. Two 10"ers mounted behind the second seat angled forward like greg's. That may or may not take up some cargo space. I'll look into the kick panel speakers but when my feet are muddy I wouldnt want to get mud in my expensive speakers. What could I do with the overhead console, I never keep anything in there and cut up the one in my last burb to mount a CB so I know what to do around them. Y'all think 2 6"ers could fit in there and if that would be a good idea? I've heard if you work at it, you can cram 4" speakers into the dash, would that be a significant improvement over 3 1/2"ers? I'll make another schematic takin y'alls advice into acount. Thx guys
     
  8. 4GUNZ4X4Z

    4GUNZ4X4Z 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    It's obvious from your comments (and from your "20KW Stereo" post) that you're an SPL guy....and it is probaly equally obvious by now that I am NOT. Perhaps before we spend too much time designing this Robert's system, he could tell us what HIS objectives are????


    [/ QUOTE ]

    10-4...
     
  9. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Right I forgot bout that part. I listed to mostly country so hellacious base isnt neccesary but I just want a great sound that I can crank up loud enough to damage my ears if I feel like it. I assume this means speakers will be more important than subs right? In that case make some recomendations on 4" and 6"ers. Thx
     
  10. Big Red

    Big Red 1/2 ton status

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    lol, so much for Greg72 havin his own unique sub mounting local, i asked him about that too. About gettin mud on the speakers, if ur doors are ok, and ur floors are ok, just dun kick mud at them. lol. As for the 4's in the dash, dun bother. it'll sound bad cus of the glass(how well do the 3-1/2"s sound? /forums/images/graemlins/ears.gif, not all that good IMO) just put a set of Commponents in the doors, mount the mids up high if u really want them outta harms way (under the armrest will be good, especially seeing as u can mount the tweet on the door, or be really trick and go right in the face of the dash, the driver side being in a guage hole /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif) As for the 6x9, why not use it as a center channel? (it could work if done properly) Put it in the dash if u want. (not facing the glass) but u proll wun cus that'll take a good amount of work and wun look stock as u so dislike.the 15, no way should any sub face any direction other than front-firing or rear-firing. they sound like crap, although gregs idea works marvelously (as far as i can tell) Completely lose the center sub, the 15 will drown it out bad. All in all, here would be a good setup:

    Doors- Component system, 5-1/4 or 6-1/2".
    Mid Panels- Subs, angled inward like Greg72's, either 10's or 12's (12's gotta be less than 6-3/4" deep, or the box will stick out a bit too far into the passenger compartment)
    Rear Panels-6x9's 3-ways or even 4-ways for the rear passengers.
    Mount amps in rear side panels above wheel well, next to 6x9's vertically, or under seat with the front covered w/ louvered(or "holy board"lol, e.i- pegboard) covered w/ matching color carpet and same in back of seat. Mount ur caps (ir ur running them) relatively close to the amps. if u desperately want good sound for ur passengers, give em the same component system, mounting the mids up on top of the sub box in a seperate enclosure and teh tweets just above angled in.

    To me, that would be a great setup. hope it helps. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  11. Big Red

    Big Red 1/2 ton status

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    one last question, did u buy anything already? or are u still planning? /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  12. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    No I havent bought anything yet and prety much the only thing I'm steadfast about is the headunit. Anyone have any input on the roof mounted center console idea? I think it would be cool and unique. From some of what you are saying it sounds like you're thinking blazer instead of Burban. New schematic will be forthcoming.
     
  13. Big Red

    Big Red 1/2 ton status

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    i was thinkin burb. if i was thinkin blazer, i woulda said forget the radio and spend ur money on mongo size rims and tires. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  14. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    [ QUOTE ]
    No I havent bought anything yet and prety much the only thing I'm steadfast about is the headunit. Anyone have any input on the roof mounted center console idea? I think it would be cool and unique. From some of what you are saying it sounds like you're thinking blazer instead of Burban. New schematic will be forthcoming.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    The roof mounted console will probably have the same limitations of the 3.5" dash speakers....

    1. I don't think you'll get a very big speaker in there

    2. If you did manage to get something BIG in there, the whole panel would probably rattle like crazy!

    3. It's too close to your ears (at least on the left side, in the driver's seat) so it's going to be almost impossible to get a "stereo" image....that left speaker is going to overwhelm the right because it's so much closer to your ears.


    I don't know how "deep" you want to get into the stereo installation, but one technique that pays off with REALLY good sound is positioning the front speakers equidistant from the listeners ears. If you start measuring the distances (left and right) it will become obvious that the closer you mount the speakers to your head, the more extreme the differences will be between the left and right speaker to your ears. The solution is to get them LOW to the floor and angle them UP. This is why those speaker pods can sound so nice. You get a nice "centered" stereo image that way.

    Taken to an extreme (which I just couldn't resist! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) you can even mount the speakers INSIDE the floor in custom made pockets and fire them up through the carpet (non-rubber backed of course) to get the speakers even MORE equidistant......it's a TON of work, but the results are amazing.

    Just out of curiousity, what is the headunit you've selected? The headunit is the heart of the whole system....a good one will give you a HUGE advantage in combating noise issues, and will make everything sound a lot cleaner.
     
  15. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    Re: Please check out my plans and tell me how stupid I am and for what reas

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    No I havent bought anything yet and prety much the only thing I'm steadfast about is the headunit. Anyone have any input on the roof mounted center console idea? I think it would be cool and unique. From some of what you are saying it sounds like you're thinking blazer instead of Burban. New schematic will be forthcoming.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    The roof mounted console will probably have the same limitations of the 3.5" dash speakers....

    1. I don't think you'll get a very big speaker in there

    2. If you did manage to get something BIG in there, the whole panel would probably rattle like crazy!

    3. It's too close to your ears (at least on the left side, in the driver's seat) so it's going to be almost impossible to get a "stereo" image....that left speaker is going to overwhelm the right because it's so much closer to your ears.


    I don't know how "deep" you want to get into the stereo installation, but one technique that pays off with REALLY good sound is positioning the front speakers equidistant from the listeners ears. If you start measuring the distances (left and right) it will become obvious that the closer you mount the speakers to your head, the more extreme the differences will be between the left and right speaker to your ears. The solution is to get them LOW to the floor and angle them UP. This is why those speaker pods can sound so nice. You get a nice "centered" stereo image that way.

    Taken to an extreme (which I just couldn't resist! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif) you can even mount the speakers INSIDE the floor in custom made pockets and fire them up through the carpet (non-rubber backed of course) to get the speakers even MORE equidistant......it's a TON of work, but the results are amazing.

    Just out of curiousity, what is the headunit you've selected? The headunit is the heart of the whole system....a good one will give you a HUGE advantage in combating noise issues, and will make everything sound a lot cleaner.





    [/ QUOTE ] [​IMG] from LMC uses a 4" speaker and has both left and right on each side of your head for propper stereo imaging. Granted, the speakers that come with it are crap, so you'd want too replace them woth something better. I don't know how hard it would be too kill the raddles, but I'm shure it could be done. I don't know, I think it'd be kinda easy too work with.
     
  16. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Please check out my plans and tell me how stupid I am and for what reas

    No offense Paul, but the console is even more goofy than I remembered!!! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

    Sure, you have speakers over each person's head (sorta like headphones) but you also have the speaker from the opposite seat blasting towards you too!!!

    From the driver's seat: You get a left and right "nearfield" musical signal, then a few milliseconds later, an ADDITIONAL signal comes from the passenger side....talk about an "echo" effect!!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Sorry, that panel wasn't designed for any sort of serious audio pursuit.....it might be OK for adding extra speakers to a CB or radar detector or something like that.....
     
  17. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Ok no overhead speakers. I thought about those consoles but I dont think they make one to properly fit a burban. I see what you're saying about the equidistant thing. My headunit of choice is an Alpine CDA-9807. I chose it because IMO it was the perfect balance of price and features for me.
     
  18. afroman006

    afroman006 1/2 ton status

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    Ok here's the new improved plan. Whado y'all think /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Big Red

    Big Red 1/2 ton status

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    ahhh, thats more like it. Make sure the speakers in the kick panels have movable tweeters, so u can better the stereo imaging for u and ur front passenger. as for the center console, i don't think it is a good choice for speakers, only because its made of plastic and rattles like crazy. but go for it anywho, i may be wrong and it may sound nice. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif good placement of the subs, and since u like the stock look, the kenwoods will be great. As for the amps, thats an ok place, i'd rather put them on the inside of the side panels out of harms way(u said u still wanna haul stuff) /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif or you can put them under the seat (especially if u don't plan on taking dunks too often) Keep the receiver in the stock local too. the 4 channel should be for the front and rear speakers. the 2-channel is for the subs as u said. And im assuming the other 2-channel is for the 4's? i may not know a ton about all the speakers out there, but i do know most 4's can''t take all that much power. btw, do not run them without bass blockers, it'll kill them real quick. Crutchfield sells them as pairs from $4 up to $10. Using those will save them, unless ur running Infinity Kappas (50WRMS/150W Max! BIG BOOM!!) So for the sake of not blowing them, i'd lose the 2-channel. Besides, ur rear passengers are gonna have the subs and the 4x10's in their ears. that should be enough. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Overall i think this is a much better setup. Hope to see install pics soon! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  20. Big Red

    Big Red 1/2 ton status

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    btw, i was just cruisin crutchfield and found a set of kick panel enclosures by q-forms for $150pr. those would make install easier and look stock. they come in blue, beige, light grey, black, and red. I believe the light gray would fit urs better (i saw ur interior pics, nice ghetto system! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif) yes they are expensive, but they would sound great. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     

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