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Please Educate me on Toyota 8" Axles???

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 350350, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. 350350

    350350 1/2 ton status

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    Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    OK, I'll get the flaming out of the way right up front!

    /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif WTF??? This is a K5 forum!!! Toyota questions???
    /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif You Fawktard... Toyotas suck!!!
    /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif You're wasting bandwith!!!
    /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif Do a search!!!
    /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif It will never work.

    But I wanted to post here anyway because I know a lot of you have several rigs and may very well know a lot about Toyotas even though you're on CK5... So here's my story...

    My 'next' S10 Blazer 4x4 buildup (last one was a 240hp TPI V8 with 4.10's and a rear locker. Little 30" tires went more places than you might think...) Will probably be a Vortec350/NV4500/NP241 powertrain and retain the stock S10 body and frame.

    However, I have decided that I would like to explore the possibility of using Toyota 8" solid axles for a number of reasons... They're approximately the right width, which is difficult to find for the S-Trucks. They are also notoriously pretty tough.

    So here are my questions, but anything else you might want to add would be great! And/or any other sites where I can get good info on Toyota stuff and/or parts deals... (I'm a cheap-ass so used stuff is top priority!!!)

    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif What are the best years for these axles? I've heard that '84-'86 has better gusseting right before they went to IFS.
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Will a stock 8" front/rear axle setup hold up to 33" mud tires, 300hp, and an idiot throttle jockey behind the wheel???
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif If 'NO' above, what improvements are out there in the aftermarket to help this combo hold up to the abuse???
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif What factory gear ratios were available for these axles?
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Any factory lockers or posis that are best to search for?
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Is there a better option that I'm missing??? I'm trying to avoid mega-buck custom-built narrowed axles to fit the S-Truck's narrow width.
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Can you give me an approximate price range which I should expect to pay for a single axle or set of 8" axles, or even a complete running gear with springs, steering, and axles so I would have everything I need for the fabrication???
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif What is the width of the axles from the wheel mounting flange to wheel mounting flange???
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif What's the wheel bolt pattern and is it interchangeable with any other vehicles???
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Anything else at all you can tell me???

    Paul 'X' /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  2. CHEVY 4WD

    CHEVY 4WD 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    I know a little a about them,
    I dont know all the gears stock but I do know some have 4.30's
    The wheel bolt pattern is the same as a 6Lug Chevrolet
    I think there probably the strongest 1/4ton axles out there, just as a idea mabe you should look into the Jeep D44's but I couldent tell you much about them except for ive seen yota running gear in jeeps a few time
     
  3. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    WTF! this is a Chevy website on a K5 forum! Toyotas are gay and suck. /forums/images/graemlins/rotfl.gif
     
  4. rjfguitar

    rjfguitar 3/4 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    Actually Toyotas are kinda cute with their little 4 bangers and tiny axles. I just wan't to pinch their little mirrors. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
     
  5. MEPR

    MEPR 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    they should handle what you looking at doing. A guy i know runs a healthy 350 whith 35" BFG muds in an 85 whith stock axles. I might whant to look into getting some alloy axles other than that, go for the 84-85 axles, some of the front ones even have electric lockers.
    As far as gears, i think they came whith 4.30, 4.10, 3.92s thats all i can think of right now.
     
  6. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    toyota 8" axles
    8" front axles were available from 79 until 1985 in toyota pickups and 4runners..
    the extra gusseted 8" fronts were 85 only...
    8" rears are everywhere, in everything, the best ones to find are from v6 trucks or 4runners because they can have the factory locker center sections (3rd member, chunk, hogshead, whatever) swapped in easier than you can into a non locker 4cyl rear

    yes they will hold up to 300 hp and a lot of stupid pedal in an s-10, but you will be pushing the stock birfield joints (birfs) in the front end, a websearch for "longfields" should bring up enough results to educate you about the stronger aftermarket joints..
    stock toyota axles could be had with as low as 4.30 gears (i had them in my 87 turbo 4runner), 4.10s and 3.80s or something were also available..

    like chevy4wd said, the lug pattern is the same as chevrolets 6 lug, since we mounted my spare toyota tires on the back of his truck and melted them (really only one, heh)

    the aisin manual hubs are some of the best stock lockouts available, and are stronger than any aftermarket replacement for toyota gear... man my post is getting really long, but read it, then if theres anything else you need to know, post back up and ill try and help some more.... /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  7. joez

    joez 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    available gear ratios ranged from 3.90 too 4.88. automatic 4-runners (85) generally had the odd 4.37 ratio, if you are looking for a bit deeper gearing.

    79-80 had no gusseting, and were more prone to bending and flex.

    81-83 had some gusseting, but it was not extended all the way to the knuckles.

    84-85, full gusseting. these are the most sought after.

    rear axles: they are pretty much all the same,86 and up are wider, but if you want the strength, get an 88 or up, and make sure it is out of a v-6 truck. v-6 third members are the stronger ones, these thirds can also be placed in the front. this goes for the rear too, you can put the v-6 third in any 8" housing

    no factory lockers available until the toy e-locker. a HP version was found in the front of the fj-80's, but this was an option, they do not all have them. a rear e-locker can be found in as early as 94 4-runners, and then also on tacomas with the trd package.

    what kind of wheeling do you do? if you are going to leave the front diff open, then you can leave it stock. dont go overboard on all axle upgrades. if you do blow a birf, then you can look at either longfields or the new, much cheaper, smurfields. if you start breaking inners, go cro-mo. if you break the rears, big if, then you can convert it to a FF with cro-mo shafts.

    the bolt pattern is the same as a 6-lug chevy.

    and as Confedneck said, the aisin hubs are practically bombproof. there is no stronger hub available for that axle.

    the 8 inch toyota axles are very stout, they were very overbuilt from the factory for the vehicle they were put in. this is why people run upwards of 37's on them with very little breakage (after longs and cro-mo's). and before everyone jumps and says "they only have 12hp", that little bit of power is usually being run with a final reduction of arround 200:1, or at least that seems to be the average for those who are "getting it".

    hope this helps.
     
  8. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    [ QUOTE ]
    So here are my questions, but anything else you might want to add would be great! And/or any other sites where I can get good info on Toyota stuff and/or parts deals... (I'm a cheap-ass so used stuff is top priority!!!)


    [/ QUOTE ]

    i am amassing knowledge so someday I can build a single seat all tube buggy with a toy drivetrain, so maybe I can help a little. The only web site I really follow for this is www.pirate4x4.com. The big aftermarket parts guys are All Pro, Sky Manufacturing, Marlin, and Bobby Long. Cant really think of anything between the tranny and the tires that you cant get from those 4 and they are the top dawgs for a reason. If you have lots of cash and want bad azz toy axles, you can get a set of sandy cone-made inners over at pirate's vendors forum for a special intro price of $450 a pair. These are solid 300m axles and pretty much the toughest toy shafts you're ever going to find. If you're not so rich, give bobby long a ring ring.

    [ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif What are the best years for these axles? I've heard that '84-'86 has better gusseting right before they went to IFS.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    yeah, then 84-86s are in high demand... I personally dont think its a big deal, sky and others sell weld on front axle trusses that are atleast as beefy as the factory for $20-25. Sometimes its quite a bit cheaper to get a earlier 80s toy axle and just add a truss than it is to get the more sought-after mid 80s models.

    [ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Will a stock 8" front/rear axle setup hold up to 33" mud tires, 300hp, and an idiot throttle jockey behind the wheel???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    hard to say... plenty of peeps run 37s or 38.5s on built toy axles.. some even with lots od idiot pedal... but most of them dont have 300hp at their disposal. In any case, I doubt a STOCK axle would hold up to well. what type of terrain you plan on taking it in is key, if its a street cruiser or just does some light mud, then sure no prob... if ur gonna beat em on rocks... prolly wont work to good in stock form.

    [ QUOTE ]
    :o If 'NO' above, what improvements are out there in the aftermarket to help this combo hold up to the abuse???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    super birfs from bobby long, chrome-moly inners, and flanges are a good start. Not going with silly low gears can help to. Not long ago 5.29s were the hot ticket with toy axles... but as better and better inners/birfs etc have come out the ring is starting to become a weak point in the system... because of this lots of peeps are drifting back towards 4.10 R&Ps again and using tcase doublers from marlin (or others) to get their 150-200:1-ish low gears.

    [ QUOTE ]
    :o What factory gear ratios were available for these axles?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    there is more info on the toyota forum faq about this, but with 5 speed trannys, I think 4:11/4:10 is the most common ratio. could be wrong.

    [ QUOTE ]
    :o Any factory lockers or posis that are best to search for?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    not really unless you wanna spring for a 3rd member from a different toy rig that has an electric locker in it. they are prolly buck$. Most wheelin peeps put a spool or detroit out back and a detroit or somethin like an aussie locker in the front.

    [ QUOTE ]
    /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Is there a better option that I'm missing??? I'm trying to avoid mega-buck custom-built narrowed axles to fit the S-Truck's narrow width.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    dunno... I think if I wanted to run toy axles etc... I'd just swap the engine ya got into a toyota... but thats just me. lol.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Can you give me an approximate price range which I should expect to pay for a single axle or set of 8" axles

    [/ QUOTE ]

    really hard to say over on pirate ya see axles going for $100-200 sometimes for bare bones stuff... other times they are built and quite a bit of $$$, just depends on what ur getting. Lurking the axles fs forum there would be beneficial.

    [ QUOTE ]
    :o What is the width of the axles from the wheel mounting flange to wheel mounting flange???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    all this kinda info is in the toy faq.

    [ QUOTE ]
    Anything else at all you can tell me???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    toy axles rock, especially on super lightweight rigs. I personally wouldnt put them under an S-10... but if thats what ya wanna do, go for it. post pics of the process and when ur done. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    j
     
  9. jeffro

    jeffro 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    1985 wasthe last year for the SFA. It's also the best. 300 HP is pushing the envelope. They came in 4.10:1 with a standard tranny, I think 4:30 with automatic. No factory lockers to my knowledge. The front and rear pumpkins are interchangeable with SFA. Gear setup is just like ford 9" with the adjustable carrier bearings.The birfields are the weak link but there are many aftermarket mods out there. High steer is also available. There is a wide range of gear ratios available but you're already pushing it and shouldn't get a much smaller pinion gear. Aftermarket 6 lug chevy rims fit. A toyota/D60 hybrid would be cool.
     
  10. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    [ QUOTE ]
    and as Confedneck said, the aisin hubs are practically bombproof. there is no stronger hub available for that axle.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    almost bombproof, i broke a set of the aisin hubs on my IFS 4runner, the only time i ever got that thing to get stuck though, i was framed and it would have still pulled out if the front hub would engage...those hubs are also very expensive, check 180$/side for brand new units from toyota, i found mine at a local 4wd shop for 20 bucks because the guy was gonna throw them out after putting warns on a customers truck. you can also check out snort4x4, not sure what their new address is, but a websearch will help...factory lockers are limited to the toyota electric locker, which is damned near impossible to find in a junkyard..
     
  11. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    i dont know how the hell i forgot to tell you about this forum. yotatech-all toyota, all the time
    that site kicks ass for anything toyota, some really knowledgeable folks there, its like a smaller CK5..
     
  12. TrcksR4ME

    TrcksR4ME 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    [ QUOTE ]
    you can also check out snort4x4, not sure what their new address is, but a websearch will help...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    as in http://www.snort4x4.com ?
     
  13. bowtiepower00

    bowtiepower00 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    Toy's are the shiznit, period. The axles will be plenty stout. I built an 86 with a SBC and 33" muds, and the only thing we ever did was twist rear driveshafts. This was on the IFS front and 4 cyl rear. Stick with a 86- later rear for the extra (3") width and larger drum brakes. The V6 carrier is the way to go, but I wouldn't consider it a necessity w/ 33's. The carriers don't interchange from 4cyl to V6, so If your going to lock it start with the 6cyl carrier. FJ80's came with a HP 3rd member that uses V6 internals. It's the best setup up front, but expensive. Toyota made an electric locker, but it can be hard to find and spendy. Gear ratios vary, 4.10 seems to be the most common. Check out ORC toyota for tech archives and a decent BBS, All pro for more info and trick parts, and marlin crawler for more tech and gear info. Those sites should be able to answer all of your tech Q's. I know guys putting 350+ hp down with slicks at the track with the 8" without problems. The rear axle should be relatively cheap, but the front may run a couple of hundred bucks depending on your location. The toy T-case is a stout piece as well, and doesn't have the dreaded slip yoke, as well as available twin sticks and doubler setups.
     
  14. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    toyotas and almost bombproof

    two words i didnt think could ever go together in any possible way

    so these toyota lockers were all electric ? or ?

    how to identify a toyota axle, dothey have diff covers ? how many bolts around them ?


    what about datsun and chevy luv axles ? they any good, i know that luv had 4.10 in them, datsun were deeper geared too im pretty sure, i know of a few that have had sbc put into them and they fast lil suckers, my dad built a sbc powered dastun pickup once a dew years ago, had to cut alot of floor and firewall out to do it though, i might do that soem day too if i can find one around, i never see any of these trucks around here, they seem to be all gone too
     
  15. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    all toyota lockers were electric, very very hard to find. they are set up just like ford 9" rears with drop out 3rd members...no diff covers at all..
     
  16. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Re: Please Educate me on Toyota 8\" Axles???

    [ QUOTE ]
    Stick with a 86- later rear for the extra (3") width and larger drum brakes.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    go with what ever rear matches the front... having a different width front/rear is annoying on the trail IMO. Also, I remember reading a tech article somewhere that said the larger new style drums were bigger... but were a different design and really didnt stop a rig any better than the older style ones.

    [ QUOTE ]
    I know guys putting 350+ hp down with slicks at the track with the 8" without problems.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    now if there were rocks on the strip, thatd be impressive. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    toyotas and almost bombproof

    [/ QUOTE ]

    well lets not get crazy... toys are good axles, but they tend to be durable because they are under a feather-weight type rigs. Even built toy axles wouldnt last for crap under my k5. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    so these toyota lockers were all electric ? or ?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    AFAIK, all of them are electric, yes.

    [ QUOTE ]
    how to identify a toyota axle, dothey have diff covers ? how many bolts around them?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    no diff covers, they have removable 3rd members. Lots of pics over at Pirate of toy axles... shouldnt be to hard to identify.

    j
     

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