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Press being kicked out of Najaf...

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Shaggy, Aug 16, 2004.

  1. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    From Belmont Club Weblog

    The Last Taboo
    News that the Iraqi police have ordered all journalists out of Najaf and are enforcing it, strongly suggests that an operation against the Imam Ali Shrine in Najaf is imminent.

    The bullet that whistled through the lobby of the Sea Hotel in Najaf yesterday, embedding shards of glass into a foreign reporter's cheek before lodging itself in an air-conditioning unit, carried an unmistakeable message: "Get out." ...

    In Najaf journalists were summoned yesterday morning by the city's police chief, Ghalab al-Jazeera. It was said that he wanted to parade some captured members of Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, who have launched their second uprising in four months. Instead the police chief delivered a blunt warning: journalists had two hours to leave Najaf or face arrest. ...

    For good measure, Mr Jazeera also threatened to arrest Iraqi drivers and translators working for the press corps if we did not comply. The 30-odd journalists staying at the Sea Hotel decided to stay in Najaf. Shortly after the deadline expired, the first bullets struck the building. But the sniper was almost certainly an Iraqi policeman, given that the Mahdi army fighters were more than two miles away. Then armed police raided the hotel and tried to arrest the journalists, before imposing a new two-hour deadline to leave the city.

    A deputation of journalists was denied an audience with Najaf's governor, Adnan al-Zurufi. The policeman outside his office was brusque. "If you do not leave by the deadline we will shoot you," he said. That was enough for all but a handful of British and American journalists who hunkered down in the hotel as the deadline expired.

    The principal damage inflicted by the War on Terror has not been to material objects or to human lives, although there have been enough of those. Compared to the tens of millions killed during World War 2 or the millions killed during the Cold War (more than 100,000 Americans in Korea and Vietnam; over a million NVA alone), the current losses have barely nudged the Satanic scale. But the damage inflicted against the fabric of civilization has been immense.

    Civilization does not principally consist of bricks and mortar, but in a set of commonly accepted values and restraints. If the inhabitants of the sub-Saharan Africa and the United States could be exchanged instanteously; the one materializing in suburban homes and the other in wattle huts, the material imbalance would be reversed again within ten years, because the technology and civilization of Americans is carried in their heads and not in their possessions. There would be nothing Americans could not rebuild in Africa; and there would be nothing Africans could repair or replace in America.

    So the most terrifying effect of the War so far has been in the slow destruction of taboos and imperatives which collectively allowed civilization to function. One writer observed that although Britain has possessed nuclear weapons for nearly 60 years no one worried about a UK attack on New York city. He might have added that no one in London lost any sleep over the prospect of an American nuclear strike on Picadilly Circus. The electronics, physics and rocketry check out fine; it was civilization that held them back. The concept of assymetric warfare was supposed to exploit the "fact" that transnational terrorist organizations operating in areas of chaos could strike at a civilization hamstrung by constraints. They could attack orphanages and then seek shelter in the Church of the Nativity; they could fly wide bodied aircraft into Manhattan, then seek shelter in "sovereign" Afghanistan; they could call for the death of millions from the pulpits of Qom; they could fire mortars from the Imam Ali Shrine and never expect the favor to be returned. But the logical flaw in this conception was that civilization could put aside these constraints in a moment. Hiroshima and Dresden are reminders that it could.

    There was a time before terrorism when passengers could walk right up to airplanes on the apron; children would be given the tour of cockpits; passengers could eat their food with real knives and body-cavity searches were something that happened to drug smugglers. That was before civilization addressed the assymetry and became, like Islam facing the Mongols, adept in the face of the enemy; able if you forgive the mixed metaphor, to out-Herod Herod. Two taboos are about to fall in the coming days. The first is the protective mantle conferred by one of the holiest Shrines in Islam upon those within. The second is the guaranteed access of the Western press to the battlefield.

    A wag once suggested that the War on Terror could end in either of two ways. The Islamic fundamentalist could become like the infidel and within a generation acquire the material wealth and technology whose lack has been their weakness. Or the infidel could become like the Islamic fundamentalist for a day and the end the fight as the fundamentalist would. I thought it was funny once. Let's win this war soon or be prepared to pay the price.
     
  2. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    ya know, Evan, you've in the past said alot of things that I don't agree with, at all, but this time,IMHO, you hit it right on the head. there is hope for you yet, /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif seriously though, thats a very good article I agree with it totally. /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif I think the press has no place in a war.and it is time to take our gloves off, and whup sombody's a$$ /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif
     
  3. CaveBlazin

    CaveBlazin 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Press has its place in war in some aspects but in this situation my feelings are exactly the same get them the Hell out of there cause the $hits about to hit the fan. I believe that there should always be correspondents in any war so we can save our history if you see were im coming with.
     
  4. K5Jimmy

    K5Jimmy 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    In Najaf journalists were summoned yesterday morning by the city's police chief, Ghalab al-Jazeera. It was said that he wanted to parade some captured members of Moqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, who have launched their second uprising in four months. Instead the police chief delivered a blunt warning: journalists had two hours to leave Najaf or face arrest. ...

    For good measure, Mr Jazeera also threatened to arrest Iraqi drivers and translators working for the press corps if we did not comply. The 30-odd journalists staying at the Sea Hotel decided to stay in Najaf. Shortly after the deadline expired, the first bullets struck the building. But the sniper was almost certainly an Iraqi policeman, given that the Mahdi army fighters were more than two miles away. Then armed police raided the hotel and tried to arrest the journalists, before imposing a new two-hour deadline to leave the city.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think it should be left to the Iraqi Army to handle up on this first....If US Forces attack this shrine/temple, it Could be seen negatively on the Peaceful Muslim population of the world....I believe there is some potential political gain to be made here....also believe we could use some....

    US could go in there and level the place quite easily....the Iraqi army would take longer, do less damage, and because it's Their Country, the World population of Muslims would have little to criticize or polarize about.....it's part of the price they pay for their own freedom....

    If all ya got is a Hammer, Everything looks like a nail....

    Here's an opportunity for a little diplomatic "finesse"....once the Iraqi Army f***s thing up....there's plenty of time for US to go in....

    just an opinion.....I also think this would possibly fall under the category of "sensitive".....
     
  5. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    ya know, Evan, you've in the past said alot of things that I don't agree with, at all...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yeah well, every time I read your sig I get the heebie jeebies. /forums/images/graemlins/yikes.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Are you a roadie for Gwar? /forums/images/graemlins/eek.gif

    I've said it before, but I have a tendency to argue stuff even if I don't beleive it, so just because I argue a point on there doesn't neccessarily mean that I beleive in it. Playing Devil's Advocate tends to crystallize my own beleifs and I think it does the same for other people sometimes I like to think that I argue logically, and reasonable people (read: not liberals /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) are might get something out of reading a reasonable, if differing, point of view. I think I tend to go with the flow of CK5 with most stuff, with the exception of the Patriot Act, but my feelings are kind of changing on that one. Anyways, here I go hijacking my own post again. /forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
     
  6. bowtiebstrd

    bowtiebstrd Registered Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    I think the press has no place in a war.and it is time to take our gloves off, and whup sombody's a$$ /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]
    being a somewhat newbie, i'll take the imminent flaming ... the press has no place in war?!?!?! wow! you really don't like to know what's going on, do you? the press, as liberal as it may be nowadays, has, historically, been a sort of check and balance to the ever-increasing reach of the government. if the press wasn't so vital to our society, our founding fathers wouldn't have guaranteed its freedom in the bill of rights ...
     
  7. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    WTF??? Easy there, big boy! I was just saying I don't agree with you alot of times. Nothing personal, just don't see eye to eye with ya, are we not aloud to have differing veiw points?? besides ya did find a very good article, step back , take breath, engage in good spirited conversation, and type on my good man! /forums/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif BTW Sorry if I offended you, no offense was meant. /forums/images/graemlins/deal.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif oh yeah, hijack OFF!!
     
  8. dodgedude99

    dodgedude99 1/2 ton status

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    yes, about time the press is taken out of the war.
    i believe they are the reason for most of the sh!t that has been happening with the insurgents.
    if the only thing you see on tv is more of your people killed, buildings blown up, people humiliated, etc, etc, then you are going to have people turn against you.

    you barely to never see or read about any good that has happen over there, so by not seeing that would piss me off about a country thats supposed to be helping me.

    the press can cover it give the general idea and highlights of the game, but its the "play by play" stuff they shouldnt be doing.

    with all the liberal media watching, im sure our soldiers over there cant really be doing the job they should be doing.
     
  9. Shaggy

    Shaggy 3/4 ton status

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    Matty, I was joking with you in the first sentence and holding a conversation after that. My whole point was that a good conversation reuires multiple points of view, we're arguing poe-tay-toe poe-tah-toe here. Note the strategically placed ":p". It's all good man, I'm not riled up! /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    Bowtie, there comes a point when the press is leaning more towards propaganda than actual reporting, hence the reason that the Iraqi government gave Al-Jazeera the boot.
     
  10. unclematty

    unclematty 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    yes, about time the press is taken out of the war.
    i believe they are the reason for most of the sh!t that has been happening with the insurgents.
    if the only thing you see on tv is more of your people killed, buildings blown up, people humiliated, etc, etc, then you are going to have people turn against you.

    you barely to never see or read about any good that has happen over there, so by not seeing that would piss me off about a country thats supposed to be helping me.

    the press can cover it give the general idea and highlights of the game, but its the "play by play" stuff they shouldnt be doing.

    with all the liberal media watching, im sure our soldiers over there cant really be doing the job they should be doing.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    this exactly why I say no media, sure I love news and info, but these fanatics are using it as a propaganda machine, I say since they like to get infront of camera's and shoot their mouths off, Lets send over a few well placed camera (BFG)'s. next time they want to shoot their mouths off, THEN SHOOT THEIR MOUTHS OFF!!! The marines need to find this shiek hodgieWTFever sadir his name is and put a well placed cap in his a$$! little dog luvin flok is just makin trouble now! ( me singin Paul Thorn's "whup sombody's a$$) and just luvin this thread!!! /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /forums/images/graemlins/histerical.gif
     

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