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Pro painters advice needed.

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by GRINCH, Jan 10, 2004.

  1. GRINCH

    GRINCH 1/2 ton status

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    I finally got my sons restored 82 Shortbox painted by a Pro who does it on the side as well.

    Well it Sucksssssssssssssss.

    The paint is lifting off my base primer in some spots and it looks like there is a million scratches all over it. They are not scratches,, it looks more like the clear is cracking on top of the paint all though you cannot feel it. Hard to explain.

    The bottom line is he is blaming me for using spray can primer from dupli-color, he says because it is lacquer based and it never really dries and the sealer, base coat and clear he applied is reacting to the lacquer primer.

    Should he have used a different sealer? What else would cause the clear coat to look like that? He says he would stand behind his work if it was his fault...
     
  2. Confedneck

    Confedneck 3/4 ton status

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    a painter cannot really be blamed for his work failing, if he did the job correctly, since it wasnt all done by him..
    your primer may not have been (as he says) the correct type of primer to mix with the paint he used..
     
  3. R72K5

    R72K5 Banned

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    certain primers wont stick to certain paints, but i dont know which though, but i suspect the the problem lies there, someone will know more, i know that you want ot stick to same brand for primer and paints you use and that you need to use sandable primer
     
  4. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    sounds like crazing.

    guys full of it.. when i was painting 30 a week we used laquer primer exclusively for years after the epoxy primers came out. it was much more time friendly. i put Glasurit basecoat/clearcoat over it for years without a single problem.

    now i have seen some questionable products in the rattle can primers, but that's still no excuse for not using a proper sealer. he should have known there might be potential probs from the rattle can stuff. sounds to me that he may have used too much reducer in his sealer or paint. lots of reducer will tend to eat into the substrate and cause issues.

    what kind of sealer and paint did he use? was it a urethane or enamel?
     
  5. GRINCH

    GRINCH 1/2 ton status

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    He used Dupont NASON sealer, basecoat and Clearcoat. He knew I used Dupli-color rattle can primer on the whole truck. He states he talk to the rep and he did everything correct. Now I don't know what to do. I paid him $550 and I provided the materials. $600.

    Crazing??? Is that possible only in the clear? What other signs does improper mixing look like.

    I will try to get some pics to post if I can get them to show up on the camera.

    I think I may have to take the whole truck back down to bare metal.

    Sad thing is my kid worked all summer and fall to pay for the paint job. It was a frame off restore and was looking so good until the paint hit...... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
     
  6. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    I hate to say it but I think your screwed. Around here the body shops won't even touch a vehicle unless they do the whole thing.
     
  7. ryoken

    ryoken Puppy Fabricator Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    i just poked around Dupont's tech sheets. considering that the Nason primer thats supposed to go under that sealer is lacquer kinda negates his whole argument of it being because of the lacquer. that sealer is an enamel.

    Dupont stuff really can suck sometimes. they're too big for their own britches. their chromabase stuff has always been crap. they take their leftover enamel and put an additive to make urethane basecoat. what garbage. stop trying to use up your old drums of enamel and actually make the correct product. sorry, rant over. their imron was a decent paint tho.

    the fact it was an enamel sealer he put on there annoys me. that stuff is dinosauric, no reason for anyone to be using enamel products these days, unless of course they're a slave to Dupont propaganda.

    signs of too much reducer are usually a very "thin" appearance to the topcoat. meaning, practially no orangepeel (without being buffed of course). you will see alot of new car finishs with this appearance in the clear, tho they can get away with it due to the processes they use.

    but it is impossible to tell what was done to the sealer. a thoroughly cured, sanded epoxy primer would have prevented this mess.

    as others said, the fact it was your bodywork/primer under there, i'm not sure what your options are. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

    feel free to pm me if you do need to redo it and want some suggestions on products and techniques... PPG makes nice products among others...
     
  8. sickquad

    sickquad 1/2 ton status

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    Little bit off subject, but if you have the time and a warm garage, you can paint the rig yourself. It's really not that hard as long as you take your time. I painted my truck myself under the instruction of a friend who knows what he is doing and it looks great. But I took my time. Took me a month and a half to do it.

    I had an extra hood so I practiced on that a couple of times. As long as you do a half way decent job spraying the paint it will all wet sand out.
     
  9. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Sounds like maybe it settled? Typical lacquer primer is often called a surfacing primer since it is used for filling scratches from body work and blocking. However, you can get into trouble if you spray it very thick, try to fill too fast or too much in one coat or not letting it dry between coats. It will generally look fine when you do the work, but after painting (usually over a few days or weeks) you will notice scratches coming through in the paint. This happens as the thinner makes it's way out and the primer “settles” into the scratches it was filling. Makes it look just like you sanded the car with coarse sand paper just before painting. This can also cause other problems but the most common is magically appearing scratches.

    In any case, I don't think your painter is likely to be the fault. It's possible he did something wrong, but probably not. If he was only responsible for the spraying, and he used a single compatible system (moot if you provided the materials) that was mixed and applied per the instructions, there’s not much he could have done to cause this. Back when I was doing body work, I wouldn't work on anything someone else had worked on without completely removing the previous work. I learned my lesson early in that carrier "finishing" a job that a guy had done on his own but didn’t have the equipment or skill for the top coat. Friend of a friend kind of thing, so I did it. Problem was, he got furious with me when his sanding showed through the paint. He was convinced that I hadn’t applied enough paint and that was the “real” problem. Then it bubbled/flaked off in some places. You could clearly see that his primer was stuck to the back of the paint chips and separating from improperly prepared previous paint (you could still see a smooth glossy surface), but he just knew it was my fault and even had a lawyer contact me. I told them both to “go jump” and he went away, but he ran me down to every person he met, telling/showing them the “shitty” work I did, not bothering to tell them about his prep work that was the real problem…

    As for the comments about the wrong kind of prep coat. That may have been an attempt at avoiding confrontation of saying to your face that you didn’t prep adequately (not saying you did or didn’t, I didn’t see it). Blaming it on incompatible materials is easier for most people to accept than “you didn’t do a good job” which is guaranteed to get a confrontational attitude regardless of supporting facts. Your description also matches close to what happens with “settling” so it could also have been a communication issue on his or your part. Just thinking out loud now. Good luck.
     
  10. tsm1mt

    tsm1mt Registered Member

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    Sorry to hear about the paint problems, Dennis.

    If it comes down to it, a friend of mine is the Dupont rep for Montana..

    /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  11. JK5

    JK5 1/2 ton status GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    The bottom line is he is blaming me for using spray can primer from dupli-color, he says because it is lacquer based and it never really dries and the sealer, base coat and clear he applied is reacting to the lacquer primer.

    Should he have used a different sealer? What else would cause the clear coat to look like that? He says he would stand behind his work if it was his fault...


    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's NOT your fault!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/angryfire.gif

    It's the painters fault for going over your primer..

    PPG, Sherwin Williams, Dupont...stress the fact...
    Compatable materials should be used...

    Any painter...with any sense...would have stripped that crap off first!!! /forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif
     

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