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question on rear discs for the 14b

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84CUCV, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. 84CUCV

    84CUCV 3/4 ton status Premium Member

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    Just about ready to go with this. my question is what about the e brakes? i plan on the DIY kit. can you use the stock cables and i am wondering if they will get hooked on stuff. as always thanks
     
  2. 1979jimmy350

    1979jimmy350 1/2 ton status

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    if you want to keep the ebrakes you will need to use the caddy calpiers, then hook up your ebrake cables to them
     
  3. pplblazerdude

    pplblazerdude 1/2 ton status

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    like he said but I have looked into the eldos and alot of people seem to say they do not hold like they should. That they are not very reliable. I think If I was going to do it I would just go with a link lock. I have rear disc but no emergency brake and im happy.
     
  4. sandawgk5

    sandawgk5 3/4 ton status

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    I hear this alot but I have never seen anyone say I have eldos and they do not hold worth a ****. It is always "I have heard they suck so I dont have an ebrake". SO does anyone have any personal info if they work or not. I want first hand experience.

    Ira
     
  5. 1979jimmy350

    1979jimmy350 1/2 ton status

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    i have herd as long as they are adjusted correctly they have no problem holding, its just that they need to be adjusted correctly and often becasue of pad wear
     
  6. 79chevyk10

    79chevyk10 1/2 ton status

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    From my personal experience being a Cadilac dealer tech in the past, the above is 100% true, they will not hold for crap is not adjusted correctly and they do need routine maintainance. Although I have not run them on my rear disc, currently I don't have an e-brake but will be installing a line lock once the project gets closer to being done.
     
  7. 84CUCV

    84CUCV 3/4 ton status Premium Member

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    OK what is a line lock, sounds like the way to go. thx
     
  8. dyeager535

    dyeager535 1 ton status Premium Member

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    A line lock is a device that holds pressure in the brake lines. It will not get you through an emergency brake inspection, nor is it a long term holding device, as it's not a mechanical brake. Pressure bleeds off, and the e-brake is gone.
     
  9. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    I don't have them.
    Two friends did. Note the past tense. I won't have them.

    The first friend's e-brake system (on a Scout) never worked right. Even after months of fiddling with the cable arrangment, leverage ratios, and what-not. A mutual friend who is a UTI grad and has been a GM tech for 15-odd years told us that the e-brake adjustment is critical to the rear service brake functioning right. Never could get the e-brake to work correctly.
    My other friend is a hands-on Mechanical Engineer. His write-up on how to make Cad calipers work is located on ClassicBroncos.com He discovered that the adjuster mechanism is the basic problem. It corrodes and then the adjuster doesn't and the brake function suffers. Buying a rebuilt caliper is NO guarunty that the adjuster will work as intended. He found that most rebuilders don't do anything with that part of the caliper. After applying typical anal-retentive Engineer mindset to those calipers and finding that they needed to have their adjustment mechanism de-corroded & rebuilt (in Davis, CA where it doesn't even snow @ salt air is almost non-existant) every 12-18 months he gave up & went with the Exploder rear disc conversion.

    In my experience in designing brake components what I observed is that if you want a p-brake with the highest possible holding power, you want a drum design. Not a disc. The advantage of a disc system is in shedding heat, NOT in static holding power.
    Note that nearly every or every Yuropeon rear disc braked car uses a drum style parking brake. That didn't happen by accident.

    If you want or need a p-brake and the later model 14bff system isn't a possibility I would suggest looking at the p-brake that came on the rear 2wd SM420's.
     
  10. 84CUCV

    84CUCV 3/4 ton status Premium Member

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    what about a e brake on the transfer case? ithink there is one for the 205.
     
  11. surpip

    surpip 1 ton status

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    how does the pressure bleed off in a line lock?
    in order to have pressure loss, you would have to have fluid loss in a enclosed system right?
     
  12. 79chevyk10

    79chevyk10 1/2 ton status

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    That's what I was thinking. You would think that unless you had a leak in system it should hold the pressure indefinitly. Unless the line locks naturally have a bleed off. I dunno, I haven't ever used one..........yet.
     
  13. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    Line locks are a valve. In operation you push on the brake pedal, then set the "lock". Then let up on the pedal. So the brake system downstream of the lock is under pressure, but the tube btwn it and the m/c is not. So the leakage goes back into the m/c reservoir. An internal leak as opposed to an external leak.

    Line locks are well known for leaking back to the m/c over long periods of time. Will it work for holding position while you climb out to check on something? Probably.
    I've heard of those that never appear to leak and of those that bleed off completely in a matter of an hour or less. Doesn't seem to be any good way to judge which you're getting, but I'll venture the spendy ones leak less.

    Mico's function slightly differently, but they too suffer from this.

    For those that need an e-brake for inspections none of this matters b/c the inspectors are looking for a mechanical braking device of some sort. Truly an emergeny brake as opposed to a parking brake.
     
  14. Txchevy18

    Txchevy18 1/2 ton status

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    Every time ive gotten an inspection the guy just slams down the parking brake and trys to drive off if it acts sluggish it passes. WOuld it be possible to put a actvating switch for a line lock on the pedal? Ie: the pedal is pushed a contact is ingaged , then when the pedal is released the lock turns off? Maybe use a momentary switch , lik a starter switch and fab a brackets that makes it activate when the pedal is pushed in so far. NOt tryin to break the law just want to pass my truck so i dont get pulled over for drivin my rig around the neighborhood. The rest will pass w/ flying covers but im fixin to be putting a 14ff w/ disc's and was just custious.

    So have i lost my mind or could it possibly work?
     
  15. xpndbl3

    xpndbl3 1/2 ton status

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    won't work unless he depresses the brake pedal first, then the parking brake pedal, since there won't be line pressure without the brake pedal held down
     
  16. Txchevy18

    Txchevy18 1/2 ton status

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    Ahh ok that makes a lil more sense. I forgot about the need to build the pressure first lol.
     
  17. IGOR

    IGOR 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Found this on Pirate4x4. This looks like a very good route to take...

    Here is the post link... http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=483369&page=2







    Alright, for those that give a **** and have been waiting for it..... time to spill the details.

    Craig gets the cookie for guessing the setup.... well half a cookie anyway. Right setup, wrong source. [​IMG] While doing the rear brakes on my '01 Ram CTD, I realized how easy it would be put that setup on the 14b. I've been plenty impressed at how well those e-brakes hold when I forget to disengage them and try to move the truck.

    So start with your 14b of choice.... in my case it's from a '92 Chevy dually 1-ton pickup.

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=264805&stc=1&d=1159155269

    I ditched the DRW hubs for a pair of SRW hubs. The next step was to figure out how to get the '01 Dodge 2500 drum-in-hat(DIH) rotors mounted on the 14b hubs.

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=264806&stc=1&d=1159155509

    The DIH rotors are a hub-centric, slip on design as used on the donor D70, so the lug stud holes are slightly oversized. The hub hole in the rotors is also considerably bigger the hub diameter of the 14b hubs. My first choice was to have the rotors slip on the 14b hubs, just like they did on the D70, but there were a couple problems with that idea.
    1. <LI nd="31">The OD diamter of the wheel mount flange would have to be turned down to fit inside the hat of the rotor, and the lathe I had access to was just barely big enough to chuck the hub. Turning down the OD of the flange was not possible with this machine.
    2. The hub diameter where the rotor would engage to center the rotor on the hub would have to be built up with a weld bead and then turned down to right diameter. This wasn't a problem, but the weld bead would have been directly in line with the outer bearing race journal in the hub. I wasn't comfortable welding on this area as I didn't want to run the risk of distorting the bearing race journal.
    That left me with mounting the rotor behind the wheel mount flange which means the rotor will rely on the press fit lug studs to hold the rotor to the hub, just like the stock 14b drums. The diameter of the hub on the back side of the 14b hub was also too small to center the rotors, but the flange has plenty of meat. A new rotor centering shoulder was carved out the wheel mount flange.

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=264807&stc=1&d=1159156514

    Here's a modified hub next to a stock hub for comparison:

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=264808&stc=1&d=1159156514

    And a close up of the machined hub:

    http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=264809&stc=1&d=1159156514
     
  18. IGOR

    IGOR 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Here's a close up of the hub to rotor interface at the new centering shoulder:
    [​IMG]

    OK, now that the rotors are mounted to the hubs, I need to get the rest of the parts mounted to the axle. Here's the rest of the parts: loaded backing plates with integral caliper mount, calipers, caliper brackets, and those plates in the center are my custom axle mounting flanges I drew up in CAD and had a local shop cut them out on a waterjet.
    [​IMG]

    Here's where the axle flange will reside on the axle tube:
    [​IMG]

    I bolted the custom axle flange to the backing plate and slid it on the axle tube. Then installed the hub/rotor and bolted the caliper bracket to the backing plate. I spaced the backing plate to the correct location and used a J-bolt to tighten the e-brake actuating lever to clamp the backing plate assembly to the hub/rotor. Now, just clock the whole thing to the final postion and tack the axle flange in place. (NOTE: I did not clock the assembly to it's final position and I did not tack the flange at this time. I will wait until I put the axle under the rig and set the pinion angle before I do that. The pics are just a mock-up for you tech hungry bitches [​IMG] )
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    more....
     
  19. IGOR

    IGOR 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Next step is to load the pads into the caliper bracket:
    [​IMG]

    Then slip the dual piston caliper in place:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's it. Here's a couple pics with the hmmwv wheel slid in place. Again, the calipers will be clocked 90° (caliper on the rear side of the axle) when I actually mount everything once pinion angle is determined.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  20. DEMON44

    DEMON44 Low-Tech Redneck

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    Oh damn I like that
     

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