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questions on boxing the frame...

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by 84gmcjimmy, Sep 12, 2004.

  1. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    I was browsing pirate last night and found this post project freak (scroll down 2/3 of page)that a member on there is doing. He boxed his frame.
    questions:
    If I boxed my frame, then mounted my roll cage to the boxed frame, would it prevent the frame from flexing in rough situations that will fatigue the frame/body?? or what will it do?
    I'm very interested in what this will do, I know its alot of steel, and welding to do, but if it stopped the frame from flexing, just letting the suspension move, I think it would pay off in the long run.

    suggestions, ideas? etc?


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    p.s. I didn't put this in the COG forum because I didn't want to get in trouble if this isn't hardcore. etc /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  2. darkshadow

    darkshadow 1 ton status

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    well bud it will beef it up but, if you dont do the whole thing then the sections of unboxed frame wil twist ans crack more.

    but think about it for a min. you are in CANADA snow slat RUST, it would be a beoch, and if you ran stuff(fuel,brake lines ect. how would you get to them?
    and since you want a rock rig aswell don't you want some flex?
     
  3. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    yeah I dont know what to do with all the fuel lines, etc yet.
    for rockcrawling, i would just want my suspension to flex... with 52's or 56's in the front, and 63's in the rear, it won;t have a problem flexing /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
     
  4. poorboy1

    poorboy1 Registered Member

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    this truck is from alaska offroad.
    I havent boxed my frame yet but i attached my roll cage and tube bed to the frame and stopped probly 75% of the frame flex. Since then I have stopped having to weld up cracks. I lost articulation but that will be fixed with a four link.
     
  5. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    yeah, with my suspension, I shouldn't have to worry about losing a little bit of flex.
     
  6. ntsqd

    ntsqd 1/2 ton status

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    In road racing you want the suspension to do all of the moving. You can tune that. You can't tune a flexy chassis.

    That being said, boxing the frame isn't something to do lightly. The factory riveted all of those x-members for a reason (rivets don't crack like welds do), and designed them to be riveted in. Now you need to redesign/rebuild those x-members to be welded into place.
    If you box the frame, you need to box from the forward-most suspension mounting point the rear-most suspension mounting point. Any frame fore or aft of those extreme points can be boxed at your choice.

    Now when you layout the cage you are turning it into a tube chassis and need it to pick up the loads from each of those suspension mounting points. Wander over to race-dezert and look thru the "skunk" articles as those vehicles are designed from scratch to feed the suspension loads into the tube chassis.

    <font color="red"> For the work involved in boxing + cage I think it would be easier to start from zero and design and then fab a bent tube chassis. </font>
     
  7. zeroz400

    zeroz400 1/2 ton status

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    [ QUOTE ]
    well bud it will beef it up but, if you dont do the whole thing then the sections of unboxed frame wil twist ans crack more.

    [/ QUOTE ] My rear spring hangers are rusted with holes so i was thinking of making hangers directly under the frame. I was gonna box the frame right there and use it to mount the hangers. But your saying other parts of my frame will crack? I was also going to put a new crossmemeber in between the boxed section but i guess it would make the spot to rigid. Anybody got some ideas for what i can do?


    Later
     
  8. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    The work involved in boxing the frame vs. making a custom frame is out of the question... I want this frame from a starting point...not something I need to deisgn, and find a place to build it etc. /forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
     
  9. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    i am also planning on boxing the whole frame, front to back so I dont have to worry about one part cracking... then I will see what I can do with the crossmembers etc.
     
  10. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    Really interesting you posted about this. I'm 90 percent finished with boxing my frame right now. I have about the front foot or so to go the rest is totally boxed. I have about 75 bucks invested. Maybe 40# addition. Used all .125" sheet steel. This is a fairly labor intensive job. You quickly realize how odd your particular frame may be and this was one of the reasons I decided to take on this project. My frame had some places that needed repairing. Also I will be solid mounting the engine, trans and transfer so it seemed to fit. I do believe if something is made rigid all of it should be. Along those lines my cage will be tied in solid and like the crossmembers will penetrate the frame rails completely from inside to outside. I wasn't going to post any pics until it was completed but here's a sneak peak.

    [​IMG]

    If your going to do it go all the way. Box everything and make the crossmembers catch both sides of the boxed frame. Tie the cage in the same way. All of these things will help eliminate flex and I still don't believe you can get rid of all the flex but I believe you can get rid of 99 percent.
     
  11. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    Woah Kert, that looks very good. At least im not the only one thinking along these lines... yeah I realize how much work is involved in making all the metal fix smoothly. what are the diameters of the steel you used? Yes I will be going all the way and doing everything.... How many hours do you think you have worth of welding, cutting fitting, etc all together? Yah I will probably solid mount everything too... im not sure yet.
    when your finsihed, can you take more pics and post them?
    Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  12. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    [ QUOTE ]
    what are the diameters of the steel you used? How many hours do you think you have worth of welding, cutting fitting, etc all together?
    when your finsihed, can you take more pics and post them?
    Thanks! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Do you mean thicknesses? I used primarily .125" sheet steel. Some 1/4" but not much.

    I probably have a solid 10 - 12 hours of cutting and fitting and welding all together. I figure another 2 or 3 hours and I'll have it whipped.

    When it is totally finished I'll get some more pictures taken.

    One thing I would suggest is taking care when you put in crossmembers and take out crossmembers. Kinda tricky. It doesn't seem like much going into it but something to keep in mind is when you take out a crossmember and box it and put in another crossmember to take its place your frame better be squared up or it never will be. Now that everything is rigid that is.
     
  13. 84_Chevy_K10

    84_Chevy_K10 Banned

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    I personally would fab an entirely new frame before I would attempt to box a stock one.
     
  14. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    no I mean how much did you use-the length of all the metal you bought, and how wide is the metal you used?

    so around 14-17 hours... it'd be worth the time /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

    [ QUOTE ]
    One thing I would suggest is taking care when you put in crossmembers and take out crossmembers. Kinda tricky. It doesn't seem like much going into it but something to keep in mind is when you take out a crossmember and box it and put in another crossmember to take its place your frame better be squared up or it never will be. Now that everything is rigid that is.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    so you mean when I get to where the crossmembers are, take them out, box it, then as soon as I can put the crossmember back in so it doesn't get out of shape? Or what are you saying? (sorry im kind of tired tonight /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)

    Thanks for the help Kert! /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     
  15. Z3PR

    Z3PR Banned

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    To me, it seams boxing the frame would be alot of work. I've thought of building a tube frame. Makes more sence too me too design and build a tube frame with a cage tied into it. But that would also be alot of work.
     
  16. poorboy1

    poorboy1 Registered Member

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    Tube frame would be best way to go but not everyone has a tubing bender. When buildin a frame from scratch there is a lot of things to take into consideration, such as square and trueness. It is very easy to get a bend or cross member out of square. No big deal on a offroad only rig but if you drive it in the street you will feel if your not true also tires will show ya pretty quick.
    Don't let me discourage ya from doing a tube chassis it sure would be cool.
     
  17. cybrfire

    cybrfire 1 ton status Vendor GMOTM Winner

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    I started with a full sheet and used only a couple strips off the 120" side. So I guess I used about 14" x 120" of material but there was quite a bit of scrap and trimmings.

    Crossmembers I'm saying put in temporaries or make the frame so it won't get weird when you remove a factory crossmember. Got to secure it before you pull the crossmember.

    I agree that building a tube frame would be nice and I have the bender and abilities to do it just want to finish what I started. I don't expect the sheet metal on this rig to last more than a few years and when its totally beat I will have a tube chassis ready to go. In the mean time I can finish and wheel this and who knows maybe it will last longer than that.
     
  18. CyberSniper

    CyberSniper 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    eh? Why?

    By the time you monkey around doing it properly (fabbing new crossmembers) you could have built a tube frame. Seems like a giant nuissance from the get-go. Imagine, you'll be kicking yourself in the crotch the first time you have to replace a shock stud. Or perhaps the first time you tear your fuel lines off the frame. Or when your frame goes Toyota on you since you live in the rust belt just like I do.

    Honestly, think about the the time and nuissance factor.

    I've had five of these trucks and blazers down to the frame... there is nothing spectactular about the frame that you can't do with a tubular frame (I'd go stacked tube route).
     
  19. 84gmcjimmy

    84gmcjimmy 1 ton status

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    okay, I am re thinking the boxing idea... it would be nice to have a tube frame, but I dont have access to anything that would get me started on making one... and the stock frame is already set up with the right curves for everything, and probably very close to being straight, etc. so I dont know... faaawk

    aah this is going to bug me now. how much would it cost to get some one to make a square tube frame? aaack. im messing with my head again... more to think about... faawk /forums/images/graemlins/doah.gif
     
  20. poorboy1

    poorboy1 Registered Member

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    If you dont box the frame will you presue the tube frame? if not then box the frame. At least you can box the frame as you have time and still wheel your rig. If you have a long term plan for your truck, such as a bad a$$ rock crawler that is full tube then dont waste your time with boxing the frame.

    you know what **** it and build the tube chassis. when the chassis is done swap all your crap over and wheel the $hit out of it. /forums/images/graemlins/peace.gif
     

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