With all the hype of a milmarker and harbor freight winches I thought I would throw another one in the mix (it is being discussed elseware on CK5 also) Ramsey has a new "entry level" winch up for sale. NorthernTool.com has an 8500lb Ramsey winch new with lifetime warrenty for $399. The specs are comparable to a MM but I would rather have a slow pulling Ramsey than a slow pulling MM. RamseyWinch.com has all the specs on it and you can buy it directly for $450 if you want. It is half as fast as a patriot 9500 but half the price. Patriot= 35 fpm @ no load and 9 fpm @ 9500lbs 8500E = 15 fpm @ no load and 5 fpm @ 8500lbs Just trying to add to the fire.