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Raptor Tranny

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by TXsizeK5, Jan 29, 2002.

  1. TXsizeK5

    TXsizeK5 1/2 ton status

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    What exactly is it? How strong? Good? Expensive? Is there a website for info ? Thanks!

    87 Custom Deluxe
    305/Sm465/ NP208
    4.56 , 35" BFG Muds, CatCo Cat & Series 40 delta flow 3" tips.
    6"Springs, Tranny, & Engine coming soon.
     
  2. rampage

    rampage 1/2 ton status

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    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.transmissioncenter.net/highperf700r4.htm> Raptor </a>
     
  3. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    it is a rebuilt 700r4 with a catchy name to make it sell for about 3 times what the going rate a normal rebuilder sells for.
    red clutches are common at ammco too
    billet servo? does this make it stronger?
    extra clutches do not increase the strength of the gears or case, just provides more surface area. a common mod that any shop can or will add.
    700r4 is not a good tranny as far as strength. no way would i give $1650usd+shipping for one.
    how do you mail order warranty it?

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though
     
  4. Glock Girl

    Glock Girl Registered Member

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    There is alot more to this tranny than just "red clutches" Maybe you should actually look at their site, escape your narrow little world for a minuite, and learn something.
    This is right off their site.
    "This transmission is for any type high performance / heavy duty use up to 600 horse power."
    Thats a pretty strong claim to make, and sounds like a pretty strong tranny.
    Warranty work? I cant think of a single rebuilder that isnt a chain who is going to warranty any high performance part.
    The 700 has gotten a bad rap since some early problems that were worked out. They can be built into a very stong tranny that most of us will never be able to afford enough motor to destroy.


    Shelby
    88 K5
     
  5. Sparky87k5

    Sparky87k5 1/2 ton status

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    Glock Girl, From looking at their web site, tend to agree that this trans is pretty good. Price isn't that bad or out of line when compared with other GOOD rebuilders.

    m j , Did your parents drop you when you were a babe? Or do you always have so much wisdom to share? By the way, if this were true, "the 700r4 is not a good tranny as far as strength", why would a corporation as large as GM still be using them? True, the first models weren't good, but after GM corrected the problems, they seem to work OK now. Don't be so quick to judge, from the web site info, the trans appears to be pretty good.

    87 K5, 427/340hp BBC,4.56 D60 & 14BFF, NV4500, NP208, TSM rear disc's,
     
  6. Blue85

    Blue85 Troll Premium Member

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    The raptor is actually priced a little better than the competing rebuilds from B&amp;M, TCI, etc. The purpose of the billet servo is to provide more surface area than the servos available from GM. (Hydraulics: more surface area=more force=less distance). It is just billet because they have to machine them, as they are not available otherwise with this design. The raptor also offers a lot of stuff that other tranny rebuilders don't, like stronger planetary gears and shells. I'm not sure if the 13-vane pump is necessary or not (unless that's the key to "towing in OD").

    The rebuilds that you refer to as 1/3 of the cost are basically all stock, except for more clutch discs and a shift kit. Maybe sometimes a Corvette Servo, so they shouldn't be worth any more than: $100 for a blown 700R-4 + $50 in parts +$100 for rebuilt torque converter + 3-4 hours of labor.

    If you wanted to build your own 700 and make it equivalent to a raptor, you probably couldn't save any more than a couple hundred dollars from what they sell it for. On the other hand, you could just go ahead and buy 3 stock rebuilds and change it out every couple of years.

    <font color=green>Today's Forecast: Partly cloudy with a chance of mud</font color=green>
     
  7. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    edit
    the site is still goofy so didnt see blue's reply
    the only hard part listed in the web page is the input shaft and pump. no mention of gear carriers etc

    for both of you i guess.
    they dont change any of the hard parts in the tranny.
    gears stock
    case stock
    so what exactly is going to increase the "strength" over stock
    the 'billet' servos just change the surface area for more apply pressure
    the increased number of clutches is done by machining the 'drum' thinner so doubt that is a strength mod but it does give a good increase in surface area and that could mean longer life with out slippage.
    I have no idea where auto guys come up with hp capabilities, must be clutch area or something.
    the last fully updated 700r4 I had to replace was in my brothers 1984-5 stone stock diesel k10. no towing or heavy carrying ever, but still had what looked like gear teeth floating in the pan. it is now on at least 3rd 700r4 in its life, assuming the one that was in it was first rebuild. now for auto guys that might be considered a long life span but for a sm465 owner it seems real short.

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by m j on 01/31/02 11:02 AM.</FONT></P>
     
  8. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    Doesn't sound to me as though you really know much at all nor have much experience using an actual automatic. If your only experience comes from "your brother's 700R4", then you might want to be more careful about telling people what they should do.

    My rig has about 170,000 miles on it. Many of those miles are highway miles and towing. I have a 4,000 lb boat that I have never had problems towing. Ever. No matter where I have gone. My 700 began slipping back in 1994 (90,000 miles, 9 years old). Was rebuilt by a local shop. Here we are 8 years and 80,000 miles later and no problems.

    How many places have you called regarding their price for a 700R4 rebuild? How much do you know about exactly what all they are putting in and doing to it for that price? How many 700R4s have you rebuilt and/or had rebuilt? How many people do you actually know that have had to deal with this? If your brother is on his third, maybe it is how your brother uses/abuses or the quality of the rebuild versus the tranny itself. Ya think?!?

    I have a friend that installed a Raptor not too long ago. He has been EXCEPTIONALLY pleased with the quality of their work and the tranny itself.

    I am proud to say that I have fun wheeling and I successfully run 10-bolt axles front and rear with a 700R4 and NP208 tranny between them. If life were really as many people such as yourself say, I should have blown up just backing out of the driveway this morning! If you don't know and don't have experience, state your thoughts as opinion, not fact. It will save you some face.

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  9. RedDwarf

    RedDwarf 1/2 ton status

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    Extra clutches means more surface area which means more holding power.

    He's right, this doesn't increase the strength of the trans. BUT, the strength of the trans is probably greater than the holding capacity of the stock clutches.

    I don't think the 700 is any weaker than the TH 350 and it does have really good ratios for truck performance.

    MJ, can ANY light truck trans beat the strength and longevity of a 465? Surely not.
     
  10. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    &gt;What exactly is it?

    a TH700R4 that is built with some beefy aftermarket components by perf auto center in louisiana.

    &gt; How strong?

    site claims it'l hold up to 600HP and lots of OD towing....considering I never tow and have about half that much HP...its all the slush-box I'll ever need! =)

    &gt; Good?

    very. Is it as stong as a built TH400? No....but then again, unless you are going to have a blown 454 or something in your rig, don't worry about it. Besides, the 400 doesnt have OD. OD is way nice if you drive your rig on the interstates to get to 4-wheelin spots and want to run low gears. All around I think a well built 700 is a great tranny for an offroad rig.

    &gt; Expensive?

    about $1600. They ship them quickly too, I ordered one about 2 months ago and got it in a week. You dont have to send them your old tranny or anything, so you can keep your original 700R4 as a spare or sell it, whatever.

    &gt; Is there a website for info ?

    someone else already got this one. BTW, I have never liked calling businesses to order stuff (phonephobia?)...but when I called PATC I was definitely pleased. I didn't talk to some person that was clueless and just wanted my CC number...the guy (forget his name) knew trannys...when he asked if I wanted a certain option and I didnt know what it was, he'd explain it to me in detail and then make a recommendation based on the type of driving I was going to do. Several times he'd say "you prolly dont need that for your rig". That kinda thing scores cool points with me, I've seen to many places try to stack on all the options that they can just trying to score extra $$$....lame. At any rate, if I ever need another tranny, I'd love to deal with PATC again...which is about as strong a recommendation as anyone can make. =)

    J


    See the on-going build up of my '85 Jimmy! <a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/jekbrown>http://community.webshots.com/user/jekbrown</a>
     
  11. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    the poster asked for opinions, i gave one.
    if you dont like the response then put your blinders on.
    the fact that the tranny has a website dedicated to its flaws and repairs leads me to believe that it aint so hot as well.
    If you believe all the fancy words like "raptor" "goliath" "extreme" when someone glues them to a polished turd then spend away.
    auto trannys are the most scary item to try and buy.
    find a trusted local guy who will warrantee the work and let you stand there as he rips it down. every town has someone the locals swear by not at.
    again the red clutches are the common rebuilder items not something to brag on.
    no warrantee on a 'high performance' part!!! if it had a transbrake and a 5000 stall we could call it hipo but a stock trans for a truck should be warranteed if the trans can hold '600hp'
    buyer beware, the cost as was mentioned above for any trans rebuild kit is in the $150 range + torque(for near stock truck app will be near $150 range as well) with the HD red clutches the rest is pure profit.

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though
     
  12. txbartman

    txbartman 1/2 ton status

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    WoW!!! You really opened my eyes! [​IMG]

    There's a real surprise, lips flappin' and so full of insight but didn't answer pretty much any of my questions. Hmmm... Let's see, judging from your infinite wisdom, everyone should drive a 465 manual, right?!? Okay, I run 4.56 gears, do about 50 miles daily driving on the highway to/from work. Nearest good wheeling place is about 200 miles from me (all interstate highway). And I spend a LOT of time in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Doesn't sound like a practical application for a standard or a non-OD. If there was ONE solution that was hands down the best for ALL applications, then there wouldn't be so many choices on the market, now would there? You decide to offer your infinite wisdom without (a) having much experience at all with auto trannies, (b) having any direct experience with the 700, (c) having any real knowledge about the Raptor but what you read on a website, and (d) without any knowledge of how the requestor would be using the product.

    Is there anything stronger than a 465 for our rigs that is comparably priced? No. Plain and simple. Makes sense. Is the 700R4 Raptor stronger than a stock or standard rebuild 700R4? Yes. Undeniably yes. Is there "a shop in every town" that can do it as well? Probably. But how long will they have your daily driver out of commission? How many would do such a rebuild and sell it to you OVER THE COUNTER WITH NO CORE for the same price? Not many.

    You take those exact specs and those exact circumstances to any local shop WITH A GOOD REPUTATION and there is no way in hell they will quote you simply $550 out the door. Period. End of story.

    You really shouldn't blow smoke up someone's ass when you don't have a leg to stand on. Just proves how much of a dimwitted, narrow-minded fool you really are! [​IMG] ROTFLMAO

    Brian
    Check out <a target="_blank" href=http://tx85gmcguy.alloffroad.com>My Jimmy</a> with all her projects!
     
  13. Blazr77400

    Blazr77400 1/2 ton status

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    MJ, Try looking at their site a little. Looks like you have your blinders on.[​IMG]

    4 wheeling is like sex, when its good, its really, really good, when its bad its still pretty good.
     
  14. AgDieseler

    AgDieseler Certified Scrap Producer Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    JekBrown,

    The guy that you probably talked to on the phone was Richard. He's the man. When I went to pick up my Raptor, he was very kind and gave me a tour of the entire facility. I think the only thing that is bad about the Raptor is having to actually pay for it. I'm talking about the pain associated with getting out the checkbook and paying for any major component.

    I do like the idea of a 6.55:1 first gear, but the combination of a 0.70:1 fourth gear, consistency of shift points, and simple maintenance cycle makes too much sense for me and my diesel.

    KrebsATM02 can tell you all about the level of customer service that is present at the transmission center.

    David Oliver
    '85 'burban
    B&B 6.2L J NA
    TH700R4
    5.5"lift, 35"BFGs
     
  15. J.R.

    J.R. Guest

    just a note, there is a dyno for auto tranny's.. most quality shops that build auto trans. have a tranny dyno. this takes care of sending the trans and wondering if it shifts properly or leaks. it can also give you a very good idea on how much punishment it will take. i do agree that MOST factory 700r4 are junk, but if rebuilt properly they are a very strong unit.

    BIG BLOCK MAN
    "MORE POWER"!!
     
  16. CaptCrunch

    CaptCrunch 1/2 ton status

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    I was turned on to the Raptor years ago from my cuz that used to live in Louisana. I have sent a lot of street/strip guys down to them and many have 500 hp motors or more and run slicks at the strip. I have yet to see anyone with problems with them in their cars or their tow rigs. In fact one guy blew the caps right off his Chevy 12B car rear and another guy blew the piss outta his Ford 9" so I would say if the Tranny can take that it is a pretty good 700R4 IMO.

    Warranty would be the downside... if it ever came into play, but it would be the same deal with a TCI or B&amp;M as well. The other route would be talk to some serious racers and offroaders in your area... they can probably point you to a top notch tranny shop to do a good rebuild for ya. Last resort if you want strength would be get a TH400 and go with a deeper first gear in it. We have done that on a couple tow rigs and it works great. Sure you lose your OD, but sometimes you can't have it all.

    Last note: I kinw a guy who just retired from running his own tranny shop for 30 some years, Also a good friend of mine has his own tranny, tcase and axle shop and I know neither have seen many, if any, broken gears unless it is the sun. The sprag is another component that when under stress can break, but in reality for a mild sbc stregth wise it is fine. Personally I like a custom modified servo and some major tweaking on the valves and valvebody... then add a beefed up sprag and sungear shell. Most of the problems lie in the valve body itself and in overheating rather then actual part strength.

    -Mikey
    1987 Chevy K5 Blazer- 350 TBI
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/captcrunch</a>
     
  17. jekbrown

    jekbrown I am CK5 Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    good grief is mj's sig appropriate. What an a$$. It doesn't take a psyche major to see some serious insecurities there....

    J


    See the on-going build up of my '85 Jimmy! <a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/jekbrown>http://community.webshots.com/user/jekbrown</a>
     
  18. HarryH3

    HarryH3 1 ton status Author

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    I laughed out loud when I read that [​IMG] Does the site have a Truth in Advertising law now? [​IMG] [​IMG]

    <font color=black>HarryH3 - '75 K5</font color=black>
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck>www.angelfire.com/super/ThunderTruck</a>
    It's a great day to be alive...
     
  19. m j

    m j 1/2 ton status

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    i have read their ad.
    states plainly it is a normal rebuilt 700r4 with 2 custom servos a 2 extra clutch discs and a 13 vane pump.
    if you are willing to pay that money $1800usd for a rebuilt auto + install is on your dime or time then fly at it.
    Hell I can call one 'SUPER Godzilla' and charge $2000 w no warrantee if you want. 'MEGA VALVE' 'RAPTOR' 'RED EAGLE' cheap ad gimics. do you get the stickers like the one shown LOL
    man people are gullible. wish I was more a capitalist and into ripping you all off.
    need any piston return springs or muffler bearings? they are good to 600 HP but sorry no warrantee

    formerly 77chev
    still a jerk though
     
  20. Sparky87k5

    Sparky87k5 1/2 ton status

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    m j,
    Sounds to me, you ought to be in the trans rebuilding business. Did you use the $175 or the $150 kit in your brother's 700R4, ("it is now on at least 3rd 700r4 in its life,") .

    But then I think I said "True, the first models weren't good, but after GM corrected the problems, they seem to work OK now." Wasn't your brothers one of the very first ones. Maybe instead of the $150 kit, you should have invested in a Raptor! Unless you like rebuilding/swapping out transmissions in your spare time.



    87 K5, 427/340hp BBC,4.56 D60 &amp; 14BFF, NV4500, NP208, TSM rear disc's,
     

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