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Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford towers)

Discussion in 'OffRoad Design' started by Blazilla, Nov 12, 2004.

  1. Blazilla

    Blazilla Registered Member

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    Hey Stephen-
    I've emailed this idea to you in the past, with no response, I figured it HAS to be a good idea (I mean, c'mon, it's MY idea, it has to be good, right?). What I need, and I'm sure there would be a decent demand for, is a bolt-in solution for mounting the rear shocks inside the frame rails. I've seen hundreds of trucks where the owner has done this, but for those of us without the tools/skills to fab anything, a bolt-in solution would be worth a lot. Here at CK5 the UAV has exactly what I'm talking about...

    http://www.coloradok5.com/ranchoshockreview/rearshockstop.jpg

    I know I'm not alone when I say that the factory rear shock mounting sucks once you add a lift, and since you guys make everything else for fullsize trucks, thought this would be an awesome addition...

    I know I'd either have to fab lower mounts too, or have someone... or you could make them too, as a set...

    If this has been gone over and isn't a feasible or worthwhile venture, thanks for at least reading this.

    as long as I'm here... I've used ford shock towers in the front on two of my trucks, pretty easy, worked how I expected, but could have been better... maybe a front tower too???

    Cabe
     
  2. sled_dog

    sled_dog 1 ton status

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    Missouri Offroad makes a bolt in rear crossmember just like this. has multiple shock mounting locations. Haven't seen it in person, but looks like a nice piece.
    http://mo-offroad.com/Shock%20kits.htm


    By the way, sorry for posting this in the ORD forum Stephen but I didn't see this anywhere else.
     
  3. Blazilla

    Blazilla Registered Member

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    Thanks Sled, that's exactly what I'm after. I am however, inclined to support ORD and would rather buy from them IF they had a similar product. Every time I've bought from them I've talked to Stephen, and he's been over-the-top helpful and friendly. That's the kind of thing that I respect in a business, and has earned a loyal customer for sure.
     
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    [ QUOTE ]
    Thanks Sled, that's exactly what I'm after. I am however, inclined to support ORD and would rather buy from them IF they had a similar product. Every time I've bought from them I've talked to Stephen, and he's been over-the-top helpful and friendly. That's the kind of thing that I respect in a business, and has earned a loyal customer for sure.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Blazilla,

    I will predict that Stephen will tell you he's not a big fan of that setup.... /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    Inboarding shocks like that does a couple of things....most of them bad. It reduces the shocks effective damping rate because it's not oriented vertically anymore (so the shock is getting "softer") You also lose effectiveness in controlling "roll" which can get pretty scary in sidehill situations. Admittedly, shocks are really not supposed to control "body roll" but they can slow it down and make it more liveable. When you severely angle shocks and move them inboard, you lose this ability.

    On the plus side, a shock with that setup has a LOT of wheel travel. In fact a shock with a 12" piston probably allows something like 16" of travel at the wheel, since the shock moves a lot less than the suspension.
     
  5. Muddytazz

    Muddytazz 1 ton status

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    [ QUOTE ]
    [ QUOTE ]
    Thanks Sled, that's exactly what I'm after. I am however, inclined to support ORD and would rather buy from them IF they had a similar product. Every time I've bought from them I've talked to Stephen, and he's been over-the-top helpful and friendly. That's the kind of thing that I respect in a business, and has earned a loyal customer for sure.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    Blazilla,

    I will predict that Stephen will tell you he's not a big fan of that setup.... /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

    Inboarding shocks like that does a couple of things....most of them bad. It reduces the shocks effective damping rate because it's not oriented vertically anymore (so the shock is getting "softer") You also lose effectiveness in controlling "roll" which can get pretty scary in sidehill situations. Admittedly, shocks are really not supposed to control "body roll" but they can slow it down and make it more liveable. When you severely angle shocks and move them inboard, you lose this ability.

    On the plus side, a shock with that setup has a LOT of wheel travel. In fact a shock with a 12" piston probably allows something like 16" of travel at the wheel, since the shock moves a lot less than the suspension.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Greg, I'm not saying that the inboard shock setup is right or wrong(cause its in everyone's opinion), but why would Dodge be running this setup in there trucks from the factory if this was bad?
     
  6. Greg72

    Greg72 "Might As Well..." Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    [ QUOTE ]


    Greg, I'm not saying that the inboard shock setup is right or wrong(cause its in everyone's opinion), but why would Dodge be running this setup in there trucks from the factory if this was bad?

    [/ QUOTE ]


    A stiff set of springs would probably mask the drawbacks of an inboarded shock setup. My guess is that the factory is using a spring substantially stiffer than what most of us would want on a flexy trail rig... /forums/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
     
  7. miniwally

    miniwally 1/2 ton status Premium Member

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    What Greg is saying is probably exaclty what Stephen would say about that method of mounting shocks.
    The best way to mount shocks is a vertical as possible off of the axle and put the upper mount where ever it wants to be. That theory works well when you don't have sheetmetal or you don't mind going thru the bed. Remember that a Shock laying down at 45 degrees is half as effective as the same shock mounted at 90 degrees. But they do also allow for twice the travel.
    Stiff springs do account for a great deal of body role control that a shock would normally help to control/slow the rate of role.
    Wait a little over a week to let Stephen respond to getting a kit built. Or even if he would want to. /forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif
     
  8. Blazilla

    Blazilla Registered Member

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    Thanks for the input everyone. I know this isn't the optimal setup, but as noted, it does allow for much greater travel, and that is what I'm after. I'm not really much for hacking up the bed, and again go back to the fact that I don't have the tools necessary to much that isn't bolt-in. I'm sure there is a reason he hasn't already made something like this, but we'll see. Thanks again for all the input!
     
  9. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    Buy the longest, stiffest shocks you can find and kick them forward on the frame rails. This gives you the angular increases in "effective length" as well as getting a little for free on extreme droop since the axle moves forward (rotating on the front spring eye). Because an articulating axle also moves the drooping outboard axle end (and so the shock mount too) toward the center, you would get more with the central inboard setup, but you also get the pivot effect where you loose almost all body roll control.

    And inboarding to the inside of the rails is not a huge hit if the shocks are valved correctly, it's the ones that meet at a point (well, nearly) in the center that have serious body roll problems. The closer the top mounts to the center, the worse the problem. Stock Dodges don't have them "in-boarded" in the sense that most here use the term.

    Also, remember to get "stiff" shocks if you angle them. The same characteristic that gives you "effectively longer shocks" also gives you "effectively reduced dampening". It's basically a cleverly concealed leverage effect.

    Kicked forward is how I have mine on my truggy, and it seems to work very well. I get all the articulation I can use, and it has no body roll issues. I could stand some stiffer shocks (cheapo 5012s), but the relatively low mass in the rear of my truggy keeps it from being a problem.
     
  10. Okiemuddog

    Okiemuddog 1/2 ton status

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    Re: Rear Shock mount (and front tower, like everyone does with the ford tow

    /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif /forums/images/graemlins/bow.gif

    Damn Russ, everytime I think I am edumacated, you go and throw out a masterful reply

    Krennen
     

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