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Remote Solenoid

Discussion in 'Rocky Mountain Region' started by teamhickman, Mar 5, 2005.

  1. teamhickman

    teamhickman 1/2 ton status

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    Did some running around in the truck today and it turns over very slowly when hot. Almost left me stranded at Autozone....:confused:

    I suspect the headers are putting a bunch of heat into the soleniod/wiring and after searching around a bit it looks like a remote ford soleniod will cure this.

    I'm curious to see if anyone has done this and if so, did it work? Are there better solutions other than going back to stock manifolds?

    Thanks,

    Andrew
     
  2. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Nope nuthin better. I had a Datsun pickup with a Vette motor stuffed in the front of it and it solved all of my problems. If I drove it around the block or down to Tucson to get a soda from Circle K always started.
     
  3. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    That, and/or a heat shield. Just one of the many reasons I hate headers...
     
  4. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    It sounds like you may have a starter that is wearing out or was crappy to begin with. If heat is the issue (which it sounds like it is), a Ford solenoid is a Band-Aid fix at best. What the ford solenoid does, in effect, is bypass the load on the purple 12ga wire coming from the bulkhead connector and goes to the starter solenoid (no more, no less). This purple wire will be re-used with the ford solenoid, but because it is not throwing the bendix out on the starter, usually will help the situation. The true issue of your hot start problem comes from three possible areas: Poor quality/worn out starter motor, poor quality/tired starter solenoid, and battery cables/terminals not being able to carry current from a good (hopefully??) battery to the starter. To truly fix the problem and insure the ability to start the motor on a nice steamy summer day, if it were mine, I would replace the starter and solenoid with a QUALITY unit (NO Checker, Autozone, Pep Boys.......) I would consider AC Delco to be the lowest quality unit worthy of installation or a NEW(!!) AMP Brand unit (Gilbert Auto Supply can acquire one of these for you). If your motor doesn't have the little bracket on the front of the starter to the block I suggest acquiring one of those from the dealer (not expensive). Then get yourself/make some nice big battery cables (I run 2/0 cable on everything, even my 4.3L V-6s), but even 1ga should suffice. Then make a heat shield out of the thickest STAINLESS STEEL you can find (make it bigger than you think it should be). Then I would change the purple wire from the bulkhead to the starter with a new better-than-new-quality wire assembly from Crazy Nick's Used Truck Parts (And Wiring Supply). If you are dead set on keeping the headers, this is about your only hope of keeping the ability to start it when it gets hot out. I have some buddies who feel the need to run headers and with this setup (and no ford parts) have no problems whatsoever starting their rigs when it is hotter than the hubs of hell in summer.
    Just my $.02, take it for what it is worth.
    If you decide you want to go this way, I can fabricate the wire/s you need and the cables if you need me to, I only need the length of the cable to whip those up.

    Good Luck

    p.s. I have manifolds in stock if you decide headers aren't in your best interest.
     
  5. bdozeraz

    bdozeraz 1/2 ton status

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    Best thing I did for the starter was the ford solenoid. Makes even a bad starter work great. As a bonus you have no live wires on the starter except when starting. No more disconecting the battery to work on stuff down there. I also use the napa premium 2/O battery cables.
     
  6. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    You maybe right, Nick, on the bypassing the purple wire but it was my understanding that the Ford solenoid puts out more juice than it takes in kind of like a transformer. This may have been complete bunk but it sure did do the trick on that Datsun hot rod I was talkin about earlier.

    Oh and by the way, the starter on that truck was a brand spankin new unit that was just unhappy with the cramped quarters that stuffin that small block into the front of a mini pickup resulted in even using stock manifolds.

    Just my half cents worth of knowledge. Thanks for puttin up with my ramblings.:thumb:
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    It doesn't put in more than it takes out. AFAIK, the main difference is in the size of the wire used to trigger the solenoid. That smaller wire from the ignition gets hot and has less ability to carry current because of it, so it makes the solenoid effectively weaker, hence the problem. Using the remote solenoid allows you to do pretty much the same thing that using a relay on the lights does. You have a shorter run of heavier wire (true in either of the 2 ways I've seen them wired) so the solenoid gets full current even when hot.
     
  8. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    The ford solenoid is a relay only. It has no properties of a transformer, it is strictly a relay.
     
  9. justhorsinaround

    justhorsinaround 3/4 ton status

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    Well maybe that's what was meant cuz on account if I remember correctly I did use a pretty hefty wire from the Ford solenoid to the starter solenoid. Either way, it did the trick for hot starting.


    So there nanner nanner boo boo!!!!!!:p: :p: :p:
     
  10. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Ding, Ding, Ding!! I bet that did more to cure your hot-start issue than the ford solenoid did. I was going to get into this aspect of the ford solenoid install, but it was late and I didn't feel like it. But, since it came up, typically most of the improvement comes from the fact that the cable from the ford solenoid to the stock GM solenoid is typically installed as a new component (it has seen no thermal cycling like the original cable) and the jumper wire/strap from the battery terminal on the starter to the "S" terminal is new product as well. At this point, you have effectively created a situation emulating my original proposed fix in replacing the original purple wire that has been thermaly cycled how many thousands of times and a battery cable of unknown origin/quality with new components. Heat and age increase resistance in a wire (of any size), and most people overlook this when working on/resurrecting a 30ish year old vehicle. Wire has a finite USABLE life span. I tell people who I do complete re-wire jobs for, that they will be amazed at how much better their vehicle will start, run, and perform, how much brighter their headlights will be etc. I am ALWAYS responded to with something in the order of "yeah right" or "Suuuuuurrrre it will" and every(!!) time I get done I get a call later telling me (like it is news to me) that everything works better and it runs so much better and so on. This situation is just an example of components, that are believed to have an infinite service life, letting you know that their time has come.
     
  11. BadDog

    BadDog SOL Staff Member Super Moderator Author

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    Well Nick, looks like we are on the same page. Much more complete explanation than mine though. What do you know, someone on here who types more than I do! :eek:
     
  12. mosesburb

    mosesburb For Rent Premium Member GMOTM Winner

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    Easy there killer, I've read some of your posts over there in the tubing forum :yikes: .
     
  13. teamhickman

    teamhickman 1/2 ton status

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    This is great information! Thanks to everyone!



    It looks like I’ll go the cheap route and just throw a ford solenoid at it at this point. There are several safety issues that need to be addressed first…seats, seatbelts, steering wheel, brakes and so on. Once I get through that stuff, I’ll address the manifolds, starter and wiring issues. I will eventually end up with the stock manifolds, I’m not a big fan of headers either!



    I still have to get it through emissions…. I didn’t have a chance to work on it this past weekend so I plan on doing the tune up during the week and maybe run it down on Saturday. I do have one question, I played with the air/fuel adjustment screws on the edelbrock carb last week and while I saw both increases and decreases in the idle rpm, I didn’t really smell much of a difference at the exhaust. I would define it as extremely rich…almost make your eyes water while standing by it. Any carb guru’s here?

    And lastly, before the recent update to the site, I was able to save threads that were of interest to me. This is one I would like to keep….how are you guys saving them? Is anyone saving them?



    Thanks again,



    Andrew
     

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