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Rock crawler questions

Discussion in '1973-1991 K5 Blazer | Truck | Suburban' started by RGF, Oct 12, 2001.

  1. RGF

    RGF 1/2 ton status

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    I am building another rig that I have been gathering a bunch of good stuff for over the past year(FD-60 all 35spline/14bolt,TH400 Doubler,BBC) all this stuff is rebuilt,clean,painted and ready to go.
    It is time to put in all together on a bare frame, I have been messing with putting longer front springs on and have determined that the only way to use the 52" springs in the front would requirer long shackles, like the Hill 6" ones that are around.The reason they would need to be this long is the eye on the 52 springs have a bigger dia. than normal front springs and in my case I`m using a shortened 1ton frame where the channel goes from 6" to 8" right there at the shackle area.
    Not to bore the masses, is the front spring shackle a problem area for getting hung-up on rocks, or will running a longer shackle be fine without any probs.

    RGF
     
  2. Moose

    Moose 1/2 ton status

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    Not if you arer keep the factory chevy setup with the shackle in the rear. I have not had mine hang up with the 36" tires on it. And I am sure with the 42" I wount ever see it. GoodLuck I would love to see it.
     
  3. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I have been talking to Stephen Watson about this, because I want to get custom springs, he thinks you could go from 47" stock to around 49ish in the stock location with the ORD longer front shackles. Also, I have hit my front hangers before on the large rocks so bringing them forward would only increase that. Right now I have stock 52" in the rear and 4" rock hard/bent 47" in the front and I can hit mid 900's on a 25 degree ramp. With the new longer springs front and rear maybe 1000, thats with flipping the rear ORD shackles with custom 54-55" springs in the rear and 49" in the front, I wouldn't see where you would need to go crazy with the front hangers.

    Steve

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  4. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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    Hmm, ORD offers longer shackles that would work for longer springs? I was thinking about going with Alcan front springs stock length (47" I assume) with like maybe 5" lift. I was thinking of having the spring pin moved up about 2" to move the front axle up 2" and have them arch the spring where the pin is. Titanic went this route and it looks good.
    I was thinking of having Alcan also build me 56" rear springs with the pin moved back 2" to move my axle back 2". Correct me if I'm wrong Steve, but with the ORD shackle flip hangers, if we flip em, we can use 56" long springs right?? I thought I remember hearing that, that's why, I was going that route.

    BUT, now, since you say ORD offers a longer shackle, then we can use a longer front spring, like 49" or so, like you suggested, then that would be great!! How much longer is this shackle? Maybe go with that with the Alcan 4" lift 49" long springs and maybe 56" long 1.5" to 2" lift rear springs.
    Then, 39.5x15" TSLs....here weeee come!!!! [​IMG]
    Boss

    Pic of my truck Before N' After
    <a target="_blank" href=http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter>http://coloradok5.com/gallery/BeforeNAfter</a>
     
  5. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    You already have thier 1/2" longer front shackles don't you? And you already have the ORD shackle flip, so just flip those around to run 54"ish and in the front ORD said you could run around 49"ish without moving the front spring hangers. ORD is working on making custom springs like this with the center pin offset, might be a while though. You could go 56" in the rear by flipping the ORD's and moving them back further but the frame gets a little bumpy and weak back there.

    Steve

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  6. Boss

    Boss 1/2 ton status Author

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  7. Russ

    Russ 1/2 ton status

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    I had Alcan make me some rear springs that were 56" eye to eye with the shackle hanging straight down. The actual spring length is a little over 59". I turned the shackle flip backwards and moved it back about 3". right to where the frame starts to turn down. I did not see any weakness problem with the frame back there. I had the center pin put at 28" which turned out to be farther forward than I liked, so I moved the axle back another 1 3/4". I have National Springs on the front (47") with the center pin moved forward 1", and it actually would be better if the axle were forward one more inch. I may wind up moving it forward before long. The front springs are definitely not long enough at 47" either, as they have my shackle kicked forward about 15 degrees. That is on a 6 inch lift spring.
    I put 5 1/2" long shackles on the rear with the 2 1/2" shackle flip and the springs that Alcan made me are 2" lift. The rear springs actually turned out with a little over 3" of lift. I just had Donovan make me some 6" shackles for the front and it leveled everything right out. I highly recommend Alcan springs over the Nationals. I have a tweaked set of 6" lift Nationals that I took off to put the Alcans on. The springs from Alcan are a lot higher quality in my opinion than the Nationals, and their customer service is way better than what you will get with National.
    Russ
     
  8. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    Yeah, the ones ORD are going to design will be made by Alcan, good stuff.

    Steve

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  9. Shawn

    Shawn 1/2 ton status Premium Member Author

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    ORD spec'd springs are IT! After riding in Watsons K5 (when he still had leafs) I was sold. I've tried Rough Country, Skyjacker, and BDS and those springs don't even come close to ORD's. If you are on a tight budget, then I'd look at BDS and Tuff Country.

    Shawn
    87 K5
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  10. Thumper

    Thumper 1/2 ton status

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    So, for us mud guys... what exactly is the benefit of going to longer springs? For axle drop? Cause as I am looking at it, if you go to longer springs, then move the rear shackle back, doesnt that negate the drop so you will be the same? Or am I missing sumthin?
    Dont mean to hijack the thread, but Im curious about this.

    Thanks

    Mike


    <font color=blue>Thumper
    85 Fullsize Jimmy
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  11. Donovan

    Donovan 1/2 ton status

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    So Russ how are the shackles working out for you? I think 49" front springs are still a little to short. I know for a fact that 51.5" springs are to long for the shock location. Somewhere in the middle is what you want and the shackle will be kicked back at about 20 degree angle at normal ride height. I think that you guys should go look at a SuperDuty Ford and check how the shackles are and what angle they are at. When I get another blazer I will be installing Alcan springs front and rear and they will be alot longer than stock ones. So Steve I guess that you didn't like my idea on spring length? Look at my website and you can see 51.5" in my blazer and they flexed awesome. www.rustbucket.rockcrawler.com
    Got Leafs??
     
  12. CK5

    CK5 In my underwear Administrator Premium Member GMOTM Winner Author

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    I want longer springs but do I need them? There is a point on a trail rig where consideration has to be taken in account for clearance as well as off camber situations (to flexy) as well as cost and fabrication. If I can run 49"-49.5" fronts with out having to move the front perch it could be a good compromise. Not sure how much more flex 51.5" would flex over 49.5" to make it worth it or not for someone who dosen't fab. Your K5 flexed great in that pic with 31" tires but throw 39.5" on it and you might not get the tire to stuff as far because it would hit the floorboard and stop any further progress. I'm still toying with ideas and have plenty of time to contemplate. :-)
    I want to find a common ground, flexy yet not to flexy that it becomes scarry off-camber or on road.

    Steve

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  13. FRIZZLEFRY

    FRIZZLEFRY 1/2 ton status

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    Thats some good flex.What application are those springs for?

    A balanced diet is a beer in both hands.<a target="_blank" href=http://community.webshots.com/user/beaterwhang>community.webshots.com/user/beaterwhang</a>
     
  14. Donovan

    Donovan 1/2 ton status

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    Steve the problem with blazer springs are not the stuffing part it is the droop. Short front spring will still let you stuff the tire up in the wheel well but to get the spring to droop you need the longer springs and shackles. You will get about 3-4" more droop with the longer springs and have a better ride and handling. When I get a blazer I will get new front springs and I will come down and show you.
    As for the springs they was from a Cherokee rear springs (XJ) style. I mixed and match some spring to come up with 7 total leafs. The spring are 23" for center pin to the front and 28.5" to the rear. So that moved the front axle forward .5".

    Donovan
    <a target="_blank" href=http://www.rustbucket.rockcrawler.com>www.rustbucket.rockcrawler.com</a>
    Got Leafs??
     
  15. Russ

    Russ 1/2 ton status

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    Donovan,
    I just got time to put them on this evening, but I haven't got a chance to take it out and drive it yet. They definitely look good though, you did a great job on them. You still need to send me a total price and address so I can pay you for them. I know what you mean about the front springs, I definitely don't like the front shackle being kicked forward like it is.
    Russ
     
  16. RGF

    RGF 1/2 ton status

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    I spent quite abit of time into moving front hangers around and fiquired that a spring 51" long would work the best for me if the hanger was moved 2 1/2" fwd. I hear what your saying about the front hanger but thought about fabbing a different mount similar to the old Fords where they dont hang down as much and the spring eye is somewhat encased. I dont really want to use a 6" shackle but a 51" spring will allow me to use one about 5" long, I think a 49" long spring with the front mount left alone would work nicely with the Blazer frame but I got that 6" to 8" frame channel issue.

    As far as the rear springs go, I was happy with what I did on my M1009 by reversing the flip brackets and moving them back 2" and using 56" springs, putting the brackets on the intended way with the shorter springs would have caused some interference with the way the frame is shaped back farther.
    Something I did notice while putting the M1009 together was that I could turn the spring pack around and set the axle back 4" because of the pin off-set. If your using the 4" flip your axle moved fwd 1" plus most likely so now your only set-back 2 1/2-3". This probably wont work with aftermarket lift springs but they would have with the springs I have from an 80`s 2WD suburban that were almost flat except for a small arch
    on the ends and these were new.

    RGF
     
  17. Twiz

    Twiz 1/2 ton status

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    I've swapped 52" rear springs to the front.
    Moved the front hangers about 3" forward and used about 6" shackles. The front hangers are just about as far forward as they will go (on a pre 81" frame) and move the axle about one inch forward. The shackle is kicked back to a 20 deg angle, the way it should be. A shackle that is -only- 1 inch longer than stock, shouldn't matter much. The bushings in 52s will have to be swapped out to fit the wider stock hangers. Really, the spring swap isn't that big of a deal, but does require modifications.

    Stock 47" springs are short springs.
    Anything longer than stock would be worth the effort in my opinion, Wether or not the front hangers are moved forward. Allthow, if the front hangers are not moved, than the advantage of the longer front springs will not see their full potential. After all, the longer length will be in the back-half of the pack, (even more-so, if the center pin is moved forward to keep the tire out of the fenders/firewall) -Don't get me wrong, ANYTHING longer than stock is better.

    Most A.M. lift spring packs are also too shorrt, and work aginst the shackle, not with it. This will make ti hard to compresf for the first few inches, then it relaxes- totaly oppisite of what is needed. The shackle angle should work with the spring arc and movement, easy to compress, than, as the load increases, so does the spring rate

    "Why use longer than stock springs"
    - It's easier to twizt a yard stick than it is to twizt a ruler-



    <font color=blue>Twiztid</font color=blue>
     

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